PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.

[BlahBlah]

Which is another supplementary reason to believe the Scarecrow is working at cross-purposes to Mab.

Not really.  She did the same thing with the hobs in SmF.

[Ms Duck]

Not really.  She did the same thing with the hobs in SmF.

well actually, with the calvin and hobbs.

 

[Griffyn612]

well actually, with the calvin and hobbs.

 

You do realize how beneath Mab that is, to KNOW about the comic strip book, and to go out and get one, and then leave it in the basement?

TTH could have put it there in PG, knowing he wouldn't find it until SmF, and helping his subconscious out with the Hobbs/hobs thing.  Just saying... 

[Elegast]

You do realize how beneath Mab that is, to KNOW about the comic strip book, and to go out and get one, and then leave it in the basement?

Unless the comic was inspired by Lea. Remember that Mab was acting as a proxy.

[Ms Duck]

You do realize how beneath Mab that is, to KNOW about the comic strip book, and to go out and get one, and then leave it in the basement?

TTH could have put it there in PG, knowing he wouldn't find it until SmF, and helping his subconscious out with the Hobbs/hobs thing.  Just saying... 

i think mab has a silly sick sense of humor. as a being with intelelctus, fo course she would know about a comic strip that involves snow goons, magical transformations, and a theme of leaving humanity behind to spend forever in a magical winter wonderland

[knnn]

i think mab has a silly sick sense of humor. as a being with intelelctus, fo course she would know about a comic strip that involves snow goons, magical transformations, and a theme of leaving humanity behind to spend forever in a magical winter wonderland

Do we know for sure she actually has full-blown Intellectus?  In TC, Harry speculates that Mother Summer and Mother Winter have it, but says nothing about Mab/Titania.

[Ms Duck]

Do we know for sure she actually has full-blown Intellectus?  In TC, Harry speculates that Mother Summer and Mother Winter have it, but says nothing about Mab/Titania.

id say we can conclude she has something close, even if not full out. she speaks in the future tense, and in broad statements that so far have been pretty darn correct. she probably does not allways undersatnd what she sees, as far as humanity goes, but shes seeing truth.

ever read lord foul's bane? lord foul was seer, and could forsee the future, the past, and the present, but since he was not a prophet he could not interpret his visions corectly. I think that's what mab is- seer but not prophet. thats why she knows so much but her understanding is incomplete.

[knnn]

id say we can conclude she has something close, even if not full out. she speaks in the future tense, and in broad statements that so far have been pretty darn correct. she probably does not allways undersatnd what she sees, as far as humanity goes, but shes seeing truth.

My read on her has always been that she was scary smart and had a lot of sources of information, allowing her to predict certain future events with great certainty (like a huge, cosmic chessboard), but no actual "see the future" powers.

I'm not exactly sure what the practical ramifications of this distinction are, but I'm pretty sure they exist.

[Ms Duck]

My read on her has always been that she was scary smart and had a lot of sources of information, allowing her to predict certain future events with great certainty (like a huge, cosmic chessboard), but no actual "see the future" powers.

I'm not exactly sure what the practical ramifications of this distinction are, but I'm pretty sure they exist.

either you have a person with complete information but incomplete undersatnding, or a person with incomplete information but more complete understanding; the end result is, errors can be made. I think woj backs the incomplete understanding pov, but its just my incomplete undersatnding.   

[BlahBlah]

I tend to think of Mab as on par with Uriel, and think of Uriel as a four-dimensional being unconstrained (or less constrained) by time.  He (and she) can see past present and future at the same moment, and so can control the flow of events with a precision that is impossible for mere three-dimensional mortals.

It's a coherent way to justify projecting complex plans into the chaos of PG.  It is consistent with Uriel's known interventions in SmF and his suspected interventions in other books, as well as Mab's admiration for his methods

[asetti]

You do realize how beneath Mab that is, to KNOW about the comic strip book, and to go out and get one, and then leave it in the basement?

TTH could have put it there in PG, knowing he wouldn't find it until SmF, and helping his subconscious out with the Hobbs/hobs thing.  Just saying... 

How would she not know about Calvin and Hobbes!  Who do you think the author sold his soul to for such awesomeness! :-)

[Vairelome]

I tend to think of Mab as on par with Uriel, and think of Uriel as a four-dimensional being unconstrained (or less constrained) by time.  He (and she) can see past present and future at the same moment, and so can control the flow of events with a precision that is impossible for mere three-dimensional mortals.

It's a coherent way to justify projecting complex plans into the chaos of PG.  It is consistent with Uriel's known interventions in SmF and his suspected interventions in other books, as well as Mab's admiration for his methods

Mab is nowhere near Uriel's power level.  Uriel has full Intellectus (which by definition includes the power to understand what you know) and was described by JB as "an Executive VP of Creation."  It would be a stretch to put Mother Summer and Mother Winter in Uriel's ballpark, and they are both clearly more potent than Mab.

Mab cannot have any sort of general form of Intellectus and simultaneously be unable to lie.  For example, when Marcone gets snatched by the Denarians and Harry asks Mab who took him, she responds, "I don't know."  It's possible for that to be a true statement (in a twisty Sidhe sense) if she believes she has partial knowledge; it is not possible for that to be a true statement from a being with Intellectus.

[Griffyn612]

Mab is nowhere near Uriel's power level.  Uriel has full Intellectus (which by definition includes the power to understand what you know) and was described by JB as "an Executive VP of Creation."  It would be a stretch to put Mother Summer and Mother Winter in Uriel's ballpark, and they are both clearly more potent than Mab.

Mab cannot have any sort of general form of Intellectus and simultaneously be unable to lie.  For example, when Marcone gets snatched by the Denarians and Harry asks Mab who took him, she responds, "I don't know."  It's possible for that to be a true statement (in a twisty Sidhe sense) if she believes she has partial knowledge; it is not possible for that to be a true statement from a being with Intellectus.

I thought there was a comparison for the DFRPG (which I haven't read nor really kept up with), and it put the Mothers up around the Archangels.  I think the Mothers are uber-powerful, but so restricted that they can't do anything other than cancel each other out.

I don't think Mab has full Intellectus.  She's too mortal for it.  But if the naagloshii has a form of Intellectus for cruelty and pain, then Mab might have a similar Intellectus for her areas of expertise.  Which wouldn't be that far off from the naagloshii's, now that I think about it.  And I wouldn't doubt that Mab has a form of bond to Arctis Tor, like that of sanctum invocation.  That would give her a form of Intellectus for Winter subjects and places.  And would also provide a spirit connection to the place, explaining why after the assault on Arctis Tor, she was 'injured'.

[Ms Duck]

That and just because one being has intellectus does not mean that its impossible for annother being to jam it. And i beleiev mabs abilities are flawed in some way.. They are not complete, or she doesnt have the wisdom to fully understand what she sees

[Thork]

There are things we know the Fae don't clearly understand. For example, I doubt Mab has all that great an understanding of Summer, possibly including things like "summer emotions" of joy, hope, etc.

I expect that's part of why Mab can't quite predict Harry -- she can't quite "get" a lot of human emotions, just like Bob has a hard time understanding the concepts of Good and Evil.