PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.

[Vairelome]

If the athame had infected Winter

It seems to be a common assumption that the athame "infected" or "corrupted" Lea/Mab/Winter.  WoJ says that the athame is NOT a vector of corruption, but it IS a vector of power.  I think that any theory based on a need to cleanse the corruption caused by the athame is going to run into issues, which is why my own theory above looks for a different source of Lea's corruption and Mab's injury.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

by the phrasing of the original question. 

Looks to me like a classic Faerie evasive answer, but to each their own read.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

It seems to be a common assumption that the athame "infected" or "corrupted" Lea/Mab/Winter.  WoJ says that the athame is NOT a vector of corruption, but it IS a vector of power.  I think that any theory based on a need to cleanse the corruption caused by the athame is going to run into issues, which is why my own theory above looks for a different source of Lea's corruption and Mab's injury.

We know it's a vector of power; I am operating on the basis that a power as dark as whatever is behind the athame, that appears most likely Outsidery, is liable to be have an effect of some sort on the wielders, and that would seem to plausibly be a cause for the changes we see in Lea and Mab; corruption is a word that need not apply here, sfaict, for that explanation to still work.

[Be]

how can thw scarecrow be an outsider when it says in the book it has served Mab since before Haarry's (or mortals) time

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

how can thw scarecrow be an outsider when it says in the book it has served Mab since before Haarry's (or mortals) time

It's lying ?  If it's an Outsider rather than purely Faerie, it may not be bound to tell the truth.

[Elegast]

how can thw scarecrow be an outsider when it says in the book it has served Mab since before Haarry's (or mortals) time

Because he's not an outsider. He's just boosted by power from the Outside.

[Vairelome]

I am operating on the basis that a power as dark as whatever is behind the athame, that appears most likely Outsidery

I don't follow the train of logic that leads to this conclusion.  The athame certainly has dark associations (according to the WoJ that nailed down it's historical reference), but I don't recall any evidence for an Outsider linkage.

Now, I certainly agree with the next step in your logic.  If the athame has an Outsider power-linkage, then significant negative effects on the wielder are highly likely.  However, I don't see why you wouldn't call those effects "corruption," especially if you are describing Lea's mental state while she was frozen in Arctis Tor.  Something had clearly messed with the inside of her head.  Given her reactions, "twisted by dark magic" sounds like a perfectly valid explanation.

Lea acquired the athame and (presumably) used it offscreen at some point.  Some time later, Lea appeared to be suffering from the corrupting effects of some dark source of power, maybe Outsider-linked.  There are two relatively obvious potential sources of this damage/corruption: the athame itself, or whatever Lea was doing with the athame.  Since the athame isn't a vector of corruption (WoJ), I'd like to know more about what exactly Lea was doing with the athame.  "Trying to overthrow Mab" is one idea, but that theory depends on the athame acting as a corrupting influence, so I don't buy it.  "Fighting--and losing to--something powerful and Outsidery" better fits the data, in my opinion.

[King Ash]

I don't think the fetch was outsider boosted. When it first meets Harry in Arctis Tor it tells him to see if his fire can work in the Heart of Winter. Given the cold comment it seems likely that it is due to winter powers that the fire dies out rather than outsider powers. And later Harry seems sure it is still a fetch, just one granted great power or talent enough to exceed its former status.

While this could be due to outsiders I get the impression it is just because it is an old strong fetch.

[TheCuriousFan]

Didn't that cold power also block a massive force blast at one point? It seems less fire resistance and more magic resistance to me.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I don't follow the train of logic that leads to this conclusion.  The athame certainly has dark associations (according to the WoJ that nailed down it's historical reference), but I don't recall any evidence for an Outsider linkage.

It coming from Cowl, who when he's not out there faking Darkhallows to kill off Kemmlerites, is pretty much an Outsider sort of guy.

However, I don't see why you wouldn't call those effects "corruption," especially if you are describing Lea's mental state while she was frozen in Arctis Tor.  Something had clearly messed with the inside of her head.  Given her reactions, "twisted by dark magic" sounds like a perfectly valid explanation.

because I think "possession" looks like a much better word.

Lea acquired the athame and (presumably) used it offscreen at some point.  Some time later, Lea appeared to be suffering from the corrupting effects of some dark source of power, maybe Outsider-linked.  There are two relatively obvious potential sources of this damage/corruption: the athame itself, or whatever Lea was doing with the athame.  Since the athame isn't a vector of corruption (WoJ), I'd like to know more about what exactly Lea was doing with the athame.  "Trying to overthrow Mab" is one idea, but that theory depends on the athame acting as a corrupting influence, so I don't buy it.  "Fighting--and losing to--something powerful and Outsidery" better fits the data, in my opinion.

Interesting line of thought.

[vultur]

It coming from Cowl, who when he's not out there faking Darkhallows to kill off Kemmlerites, is pretty much an Outsider sort of guy.

What about the Fomor (or rather Fomor-altered or whatever, since his magic seems human) theory? Have we actually seen him doing anything that's distinctly Outsidery? The uberghouls and the weird pterodactyl-comet in WN could just as easily be from the same sort of dark, creepy bits of the NN that the Fomor come from (and I think in GS they're described as an alliance of disparate stuff, not a single supernatural 'species').

Hmm, if we provisionally accept the fake Darkhallow idea, was the whole WN plot a fake too - specifically designed to lure in Harry? It seems the sort of thing that's practically designed for his intervention - hm, let's attack female practitioners right on Dresden's turf, since we know he can't stand to see women hurt and is unusually connected to the White Court for a wizard, great idea. Though this would probably require the 'why did you get Dresden involved' conversation Harry eavesdrops on to be fake, for at least one side...

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

What about the Fomor (or rather Fomor-altered or whatever, since his magic seems human) theory?

We know from "Even hand" what Fomor magic looks like, and to my mind that looks distinct enough from either the wizard-magic Cowl slams Harry about with in DB, or Outsider stuff, that I'm not minded to make the Fomor connection a high likelihood.

Have we actually seen him doing anything that's distinctly Outsidery? The uberghouls and the weird pterodactyl-comet in WN could just as easily be from the same sort of dark, creepy bits of the NN that the Fomor come from

I think Harry identifies the pterodactyl-comet and maybe also Vittorio's attack as feeling specifically outsidery.

Hmm, if we provisionally accept the fake Darkhallow idea, was the whole WN plot a fake too - specifically designed to lure in Harry? It seems the sort of thing that's practically designed for his intervention - hm, let's attack female practitioners right on Dresden's turf, since we know he can't stand to see women hurt and is unusually connected to the White Court for a wizard, great idea.

I think the explanation of that being a thing that had been hanging around White Court thinking for a goodly while that Lara pushed to an issue now so that Harry would stomp on it for her, which Harry figures out for himself, works. And I don't see any way Lara could be Cowl.

I read WN as Harry thwarting Cowl's primary plan - of getting Lord R kicked out as White King, preferably to have the Malvoras in so his agent Vittorio can inherit shortly thereafter and the White Court now take their orders from him - and doing reasonably well at thwarting Cowl's apparent back-up plan of "wipe them out. all of them."  (I do credit Harry with some successes against evil. Really.

[TheCuriousFan]

I think Harry identifies the pterodactyl-comet and maybe also Vittorio's attack as feeling specifically outsidery.

Lash identifies Vittorio's attack as Outsidery, nothing was said about the firebird being Outsidery.

[King Ash]

Didn't that cold power also block a massive force blast at one point? It seems less fire resistance and more magic resistance to me.

Not that I saw on a quick read through. He throws fire at it which bounces off, sends a forzare to the ground at its feet, gets kicked around a few times, then realises that he has no fear left which is why his magic had an effect on the other fetches, then gets summer flame and BBQs it in a few strikes.

[TheCuriousFan]

I was referring to when he first met the Scarecrow or was in the middle of running away from it.