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[Sanctaphrax]

Saying One World By Night isn't helpful, I don't even know exactly what it is.

My question was a genuine one, not an argument in disguise.

[Richard_Chilton]

Why use Templates?

To encourage different power sets.  If every power is (in theory) available to all PCs then some people will see another PC's choices and try to clone them.

To link the game to the DV - with the limitations and feeling of that setting.  For example Thomas isn't a wizard nor is he a Red Court Vampire - and his powers reflect that.  Maybe a high refresh version of Thomas would have more magical ump but the standard WCV would follow the WCV template - even though certain magical powers are more useful than some of the WCV's powers.

Speaking of those limitations - I don't see someone with the Powers of Faith also having mystic powers.  There are different mindsets involved - and the templates reinforce that.  Harry is pretty sure that God exists and has enough Faith in magic to drive off BCVs, but I don't see Harry getting Faith powers anytime soon.

Templates cut down on snowflake characters; there might be a Wizard (or Sorcerer) out there with the powers of Faith, but playing that one off shouldn't be automatic.  Buying what you need for one Template before you can start buying things from another template cuts down on the number of White Court Vampires with Channeling and Guide My Hand.

From my experiences with a large RP group (not One World By Night - its competitor) when a power is advantageous it becomes common.  For example, in a large Vampire the Masquerade setting, the number of PCs with Thaumaturgy reached the point where it was joked that Thaumaturgy was everyone's fourth in clan.  When restrictions were placed on Thaumaturgy (in keeping with the published setting) Protean with its Wolf Claws became everyone's "fourth in clan".

And here's the counter question - what sorts of PCs do you end up with when you discard Templates?

Richard

[Silverblaze]

Saying One World By Night isn't helpful, I don't even know exactly what it is.

My question was a genuine one, not an argument in disguise.

Sorry.

The rest of my post explained what happens in that organization.  Skilled people run roughsod on the rules as written without limitations.  Hell, they do it with limitations, just less.

[Silverblaze]

Why use Templates?

To encourage different power sets.  If every power is (in theory) available to all PCs then some people will see another PC's choices and try to clone them.



From my experiences with a large RP group (not One World By Night - its competitor) when a power is advantageous it becomes common.  For example, in a large Vampire the Masquerade setting, the number of PCs with Thaumaturgy reached the point where it was joked that Thaumaturgy was everyone's fourth in clan.  When restrictions were placed on Thaumaturgy (in keeping with the published setting) Protean with its Wolf Claws became everyone's "fourth in clan".

And here's the counter question - what sorts of PCs do you end up with when you discard Templates?

Richard

I think we may be some of the only ones familiar with V;tM etc.

What kind of characters do you get with out templates?

Lenny the mythic strength holy giant 1/2 temple dog with evocation and sponsored magic and 42 points of refinement who uses custom stunts and dual wields swords of the cross

[Richard_Chilton]

No, those are the types of PCs that you (One World By Night) and I (Camarilla, MC 14, countless offices) expect to see.

I'm curious at what sorts of PCs are actually being played by groups that ditch Templates.  Remember, unlike a large LARP, when you're running a TT group you have the option to tell the assholes that they aren't invited to play.  That would cut down on the abuse.

Richard

[Silverblaze]

No, those are the types of PCs that you (One World By Night) and I (Camarilla, MC 14, countless offices) expect to see.

I'm curious at what sorts of PCs are actually being played by groups that ditch Templates.  Remember, unlike a large LARP, when you're running a TT group you have the option to tell the assholes that they aren't invited to play.  That would cut down on the abuse.

Richard

Very true, I apologize for the pseudo trolling.

[Sanctaphrax]

That's an idiotic character.

Dual-wielding Swords Of The Cross wastes 5 Refresh. Plus they're redundant for an Evoker.

Temple Dogs have Claws, which no good optimizer would take alongside a Sword and Evocation.

Temple Dogs have The Bark, which generally sucks.

Mythic Strength and Evocation are not a good combination at all. That's basically taking the same rough set of capabilities twice using different skills and paying twice.

And Size powers aren't the best way to boost your durability. Lenny's freakin' fragile.

Lenny's a 62+ Refresh character, but I think I could easily thrash him with a 20 Refresh character. A 20 Refresh character who doesn't deviate from canon templates, in fact.

The above is mostly a joke, but it has a point. Intelligent Refresh spending generally gives you a coherent character. The rules of this game make it mechanically optimal to not make Lenny.

If you head over to the Play By Post board to look at Enduring The Apocalypse, you'll see the kind of characters I play with. Some are optimized, others are not. The most optimized of them, Elena Blackcloak, is narratively an Emissary Of Power and a Scion. She doesn't have Marked By Power, though.

I've also got a White Court Vampire, a giant scion, a template-less shapeshifter, and a nightmare-god scion. Former characters include a few spellcasters and a space marine.

I appreciate the explanation, by the way.

PS: If a power is optimal for everyone, the power is broken and should be discarded or edited. Don't blame the lack of templates for that, blame badly-written powers. (In fact, I think that problem is worse when templates are used. If everyone needs to have Blood Drinker for whatever reason and that power is only available to Red Court Infected, characters are going to look pretty similar to one another.)