Advice on Mental Toughness.

[Locnil]

Welp, my first topic. Anyway.

So, it seems like, for balance reasons, everyone rules that self-inflicted stress bypasses all mental armor. But would a character with such a power still be able to make use of the extra mental stress boxes granted by toughness?

And to take it broader, how exactly does it work? Say a Fae is hit by a fist made up of steel. It bypasses toughness armor, but can the Fae still soak up the hit with the extra stress boxes it has from toughness?

[Mr. Death]

No. The Catch on a Toughness power bypasses both the armor and the extra stress boxes. The Catch makes it as if the Toughness power isn't there at all.

[Locnil]

Ah, I see. So for the first example, would you recommend not letting self-inflicted stress use up the extra stess boxes as well?

[eri]

I'd say yes, you'd still be able to use them. You can bypass your own armour because, um, you start out inside it or know where all the chinks are or something, but  toughness isn't something you can turn on or off. Unless you use your own Catch of course, then that bypasses like normal.

[Sanctaphrax]

Mr. Death is right about the Catch.

As for self-inflicted stress, it depends. If the stress is part of a cost for something, then you can't use your Toughness at all. If you're just attacking yourself for whatever reason, then you get your Toughness fully.

[ways and means]

According to the raw self inflicted stress bypasses any Armour (physical, mental etc) but does not count as a catch, so there is no reason why you couldn't use the extra stress boxes (other than balance reasons).   

[Tedronai]

Mr. Death is right about the Catch.

As for self-inflicted stress, it depends. If the stress is part of a cost for something, then you can't use your Toughness at all. If you're just attacking yourself for whatever reason, then you get your Toughness fully.

Would you be willing to provide a RAW source for these conclusions?

[Sanctaphrax]

Sorry, should have specified: that's not RAW. It's just my opinion.

Since there's actually no way to get extra mental stress boxes by the RAW and no way to spend physical stress as a cost by RAW, the RAW obviously has nothing to say on the matter. I think.

[Vargo Teras]

Sorry, should have specified: that's not RAW. It's just my opinion.

Since there's actually no way to get extra mental stress boxes by the RAW and no way to spend physical stress as a cost by RAW, the RAW obviously has nothing to say on the matter. I think.

You're not counting backlash as a cost here, I take it?

[ways and means]

There is a side bar in the book where they asks what happens if someone creates had a mental Armour stunt and reply that self-inflicted stress always bypasses Armour.

[eri]

There is a side bar in the book where they asks what happens if someone creates had a mental Armour stunt and reply that self-inflicted stress always bypasses Armour.

YS250, for the curious.

I'm a bit unsure if backlash should count as "self-inflicted". I mean, my first instinct says that of course the Wizard doesn't intentionally cause a spell to backlash (and it therefore shouldn't count as self inflicted), but it's also clearly a conscious choice on the wizard's part to take it as backlash and not fallout, so they are in essence accepting that damage... Hm, I don't know

[Ghsdkgb]

YS250, for the curious.

I'm a bit unsure if backlash should count as "self-inflicted". I mean, my first instinct says that of course the Wizard doesn't intentionally cause a spell to backlash (and it therefore shouldn't count as self inflicted), but it's also clearly a conscious choice on the wizard's part to take it as backlash and not fallout, so they are in essence accepting that damage... Hm, I don't know

Shouldn't matter if it's intentional or not. If I clock my elbow on a countertop, that's not intentional, but it's still self-inflicted.

Personally, I'd stat this Toughness ability with a Catch (+0) of anything self-inflicted. Then, of course, other Catches besides, maybe, but definitely include that in the mix.

[Tedronai]

Serving as a Catch is far beyond merely bypassing armour, which is what that sidebar suggested.
I won't bother even getting into the beggaring of logic that results from such a ruling though, if simply 'clocking your elbow on a countertop' can bypass Mythic Toughness with a Catch of, say, Soulfire.

[Mr. Death]

I figure it's external vs. internal.

Anything causing damage from outside, whether the gun's wielded by you or your enemy, is subject to Toughness.

Something you do to yourself from inside--such as Backlash--would at the very least bypass armor.

[Silverblaze]

I know RAW is supposed to solve all problems and generally be infallible.

It doesn't and isn't all the time.  See the 20 page thread everyone loves to hate for proof.

Catches vs self inflicted damage

satisfy the catch: see below

Use common sense:

 bumping your elbow? no -  falling down? No.  -  Harakiri/suicide? yes. -   bumping into a wall? no

caveat in all cases of no: if your actual catch is bumped, fallen on etc...yes it satisfies the catch

Backlash? yes

powering a spell with stress? yes ... why? game balance.  Not a good enough reason...thats fine, but keep in mind many rules in RAW make no sesne other than to provide game balance.

self sacrifice (life or blood etc) for a spell? yes

YMMV, your table your rules etc.