Transmutation

[yrtalien]

I'm still sort of new to this and I have a player who wants to use Thaumaturgy to change his pea-coat so that it is storng as Kevlar but still flexible.  Basically, I think he wants to add the aspect Tough as steel (or kevlar), in talking about the process by which this is done I told him it would allow him to tag its tough aspect in order to defend against gunfire... he believes the coat should just provide the armmor of a kevlar vest (armor:2) I think.  We can't seem to agree...  How should I do this.

He also says that if he made a wine glass hard as steel would he have to spend a fate point every time he wanted it to resist breakage... or would it just be strong as steel.

Please advise

[Mr. Death]

Enchanted items are the way to go for something like this.

[kacowkachow]

I'm fairly new to the game, but from what I understand you can't have an item that is "always on".


You might want to check out this thread about the magical items patch: link

From the thread:

Before you worry about defensive items and frequency of use, consider this - you'd only lose one "use" of the effect whenever it needs to be triggered, not every time you defend. If you dodge an attack, that doesn't use up energy - it only applies if you get hit and the item is what blocks/absorbs the hit.

So it makes defensive magical items more of a mystical ass-saving measure, which feels a lot more like how it's described in the books - it's Harry's last resort for when he can't dodge or otherwise protect himself. "Luckily, the blade was stopped on the flaps of my enchanted duster, or I'd have been a dead man," etc.

From that same thread Harry's duster might be something like:

So would Harry's coat (made with Great Lore, and one item slot) be something like:

The coat provides either a Fair (+2) Block or Armor: 1 up to 5 times per session?

Because that's as close as can be gotten with it's current statting, but this version (made with Great Lore and two item slots) looks closer:

The coat provides either a Great (+4) Block or Armor: 2 up to 3 times per session.

[yrtalien]

Enchanted items are the way to go for something like this.

He's not trying to get around enchanted items.  Just make the equivelant of a bullet proof vest with magic instead of kevlar and an industrial sewing machine.  It still has the holes of a bullet proof vest of not protecting against being thrown off a building, etc. 

Also, make a glass wand as strong as steel, making it difficult to break.  Transmutation gives permanent aspects, i.e. If someone was transmuted to be a quadruple aputee, would you then have to tag the aspect each exchaned in order to prevent him from getting up and kicking your ass.

should permanent aspects applied to someone, something have to be tagged each and every exchange in order to keep the transmutation.  which had to be aquired by a taken out result.

I knocked someone unconcious and tied them up.  If I had to tag the aspect of tied up each exchange, would he then be able to just get up and walk away, as soon as I ran out of fate points.

[yrtalien]

Ok, last post is the player typing, not the story teller.

[sinker]

Ok, Firstly I will point out that my advice is not RAW. RAW states that if you want magic armor, then you make an enchanted item that provides armor (half of the shift total) and it is only usable X times (X being the shifts devoted to use +1). I am about to tell you to break those rules.

What I would do is actually allow the player to make a lore roll to create it, provided that this armor is identical to Kevlar, just like the player would roll resources to acquire Kevlar. If the product is the same then the method for acquiring it should be the same as well.

As far as other objects, how often do you need a steel wine glass? How often does it's hardness matter? Once a scene? Then you can simply tag the aspect when it's important. If you actually want to transmute anything permanently you must take it out and remake it. Then it is actually that other thing.

Transmuting someone into a quadruple amputee would be much more than a simple maneuver. It would be an actual conflict in which you would have to take them out (requiring 25-30 shifts) and then remake them afterwards, changing their high concept.

Additionally someone who is tied up has also been taken out.

[Mr. Death]

He's not trying to get around enchanted items.  Just make the equivelant of a bullet proof vest with magic instead of kevlar and an industrial sewing machine.  It still has the holes of a bullet proof vest of not protecting against being thrown off a building, etc.

Making an enchanted item for armor is exactly that. You can flavor it however you want, but the mechanics are that you take your enchanted item slots to make an item, and the armor value is 1/2 of whatever amount of power you put into it.

Yes, it comes with limits on the number of uses, but a practitioner can get extra uses by spending mental stress.

Alternately, make it an Item of Power. Supernatural Toughness with the catch of "Anything except bullets." Otherwise, magical armor that's permanently on and has unlimited uses--without costing refresh or resources--is kind of cheating.

As for the super-strong wand, I'd argue you've got it backward. The owner wouldn't have to spend a fate point every time the item has to remain unbroken, whoever's trying to break it would get a fate point as a compel whenever they try to break it--or the player would get a fate point if someone tries the ritual way to break it.

Same way that a Red Court Vampire doesn't have to spend a fate point to get its toughness to work.

[InFerrumVeritas]

So you want to do a thaumaturgic ritual to give an item mundane properties via magic?  Okay, but keep in mind that the effects of magic are temporary.  You may change lead into gold, but it'll turn back by sunrise.  It takes a tremendous amount of force to change something's shape permanently.

Here's how I'd let you do it:

Take the craftsmanship roll required to make a suitable kevlar vest (it's not just sewing the cloth together, but carefully making sure that you don't have weak seams, getting the right number of layers, the right type of kevlar, etc). 

Add +2 for the difficulty in finding the material (do you know what raw kevlar and then kevlar in its treated forms are like?  How long do you want this to take?  You'd have to know their properties pretty well to replicate it).

A kevlar vest takes years to come from prototype to final product.  We'll say you have a prototype, so weeks to manufacture then (from chemical treatment to finished product).  Add +1 for each step up on the time chart (we'll call it something you want to do in an afternoon). 

So, really, we're looking at probably 3 (base difficulty)+2 (unfamiliar materials)+5 (done in an afternoon rather than over a few weeks) at a 10 shift ritual that would feasibly last until sunrise/sunset (call it an afternoon).  Then, bump it up on the time chart to make it last longer. 

So to make it last a season 7 steps.

17 difficulty ritual to have Armor 1 (basic kevlar vest is designed to prevent penetration of bullets, not stop them cold like ceramic plating and other more advanced and more cumbersome types of body armor).  This is all fully extrapolated from RAW.  Even if I were lenient (say, eliminating or reducing the time to make), you're still looking at something like 10-15 complexity).

Better to steal it or use an enchanted item.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, bottom line is, making anything with magic, is like...effective, lasting, free, choose 2.

If you want something effective and free, it's not going to last long at all.

If you want something free and lasting, it's not going to have any real effect.

If you want something effective and lasting, it's going to cost permanent resources in the form of refresh and item slots.

[dannylilly2000]

This reminds me of the Can I Conjure a Sword entry in YS.

[sinker]

This reminds me of the Can I Conjure a Sword entry in YS.

That's actually a really good point.

[sinker]

I knocked someone unconcious and tied them up.  If I had to tag the aspect of tied up each exchange, would he then be able to just get up and walk away, as soon as I ran out of fate points.

Something else I was mulling over. Personally, as a GM, when I compel something it stays compelled. I hate the concept that compels somehow have a duration, and that if a compel was last turn the complications are somehow gone now. If you accept a compel to be tied up, then you can't just wait a few seconds and then not be tied up. So personally I always run it as the compel lasts for the duration of the aspect. If you want to not have those difficulties you can deal with the aspect or wait till the scene is over.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, a compel like that should last, at the very least, until the end of a scene or something happens to remove the aspect or change the situation to make the aspect irrelevant.

If you have the temp aspect "TANGLED IN MY WEB" compelled to say you can't leave a zone, you can't leave that zone until something happens to free you of the web.

That said, being tied up is probably more properly a block than an aspect.

[sinker]

That said, being tied up is probably more properly a block than an aspect.

More like a taken out result to me.

[Mr. Death]

Even if it was a Taken Out result, I'd still assign a block value, since one assumes that the person tied up is going to try and get out if they're awake, and the block would be the difficulty of doing so.