Questions

[Serack]

I thoug about they having mass because their origin was outside the nevernever, but than it hit me, they are older and older than mankind, by the erlking talk in DB I understood that he was running around with the dinousaurs... So whatver migrated from the real world to the nevernever was something older than the dinousaurs.. How that evolved to what they are today is strange.. One would assume that whatever walked there did not have the inteligence the Fae have now a days, so how could two diferent especies, separeted from million years, in two totally diferent ambients are so similar (ok mankind and fae are diferente, but not as much as man kind and dinosaurs for example)..

I don't think Erl's comments makes him older than the dino's...  He could be, but they aren't confirmation of it.  He just recognized that T-Rex hasn't walked the world in a /long/ time.

"Wizard.  Called you forth a mighty hunter tonight.  One that has not walked this earth since time gone and forgotten."

I happened to have read that last night.

[TheCuriousFan]

No, Faries are part mortal, so they have physical bodies.  Don't forget that RCV's leave remains when they die too.
 

I still have to wonder how the supernatural is hidden with all the obviously non-human corpses around. (such as the Hobs at the subway, or were they melted by the lights?)

[Paladino]

No, Faries are part mortal, so they have physical bodies.  Don't forget that RCV's leave remains when they die too.

But how are they part mortal, if they were walking around way before mankind showed up? I can  swallow that they evolved from the same fish we did, but that got lost and went to nevernever... But then there is the evolution problem we I mentioned in my other post..

It would be very nice to have Mother Winter and Mother Summer for a talkshow with Larry Fowler to clear some of this doubts..

I don't think Erl's comments makes him older than the dino's...  He could be, but they aren't confirmation of it.  He just recognized that T-Rex hasn't walked the world in a /long/ time.

I happened to have read that last night.

Still he had to know the T-rex was a great hunter... For all we know he could be jus ta big buzzard eating dead dinosaurs..

I got re-read the mothers passage in SK to see if there is any mention about their age..

[Serack]

But how are they part mortal, if they were walking around way before mankind showed up? I can  swallow that they evolved from the same fish we did, but that got lost and went to nevernever... But then there is the evolution problem we I mentioned in my other post..

It would be very nice to have Mother Winter and Mother Summer for a talkshow with Larry Fowler to clear some of this doubts..

Still he had to know the T-rex was a great hunter... For all we know he could be jus ta big buzzard eating dead dinosaurs..

I got re-read the mothers passage in SK to see if there is any mention about their age..

Here is a little info on that:

1. the mothers - how does a queen become a mother? like after a thousand yrs, old winter dies and mab becomes the new mother?

Essentially abdication.  The previous mother wearies of her duty and moves along.  There's been one new Mother Summer during recorded human history.  Mother Winter has never retired.

[wyltok]

2) When Harry burried Lasciel's coin (Death Masks); why didn't the wet cement disrupt the circle? Harry broke the Shadowmans circle with a film canister.

Keep in mind, the whispers in Harry's mind didn't actually stop due to the empowered steel circle around the coin. Lasciel's shadow was already firmly implanted in his noggin, and just decided to play along with his expectations. She also made it clear more than once that the circle would not block Harry from summoning the coin, either.

Still, that doesn't actually invalidate the original question: why did Harry, magic nerd extraordinaire, expect that pouring cement into an active circle wouldn't disrupt the magic empowering the circle? I'm with Serack on this one: the pouring of the cement was (in Harry's mind) part of the magic being enacted by Harry to entrap the coin, so as part of the same spell, it wouldn't disrupt the circle.

But how are they part mortal, if they were walking around way before mankind showed up? I can  swallow that they evolved from the same fish we did, but that got lost and went to nevernever... But then there is the evolution problem we I mentioned in my other post...

Fae are a species that literally grow in size as they grow in influence and power. Their evolution is at least partly due to their use of the Stone Table as a conduit of power and responsibility. They probably did not look human at all before our monkey forefathers descended from the trees, but were probably smart enough to change themselves once they realized how influential we were. Even so, they still retain quite a few non-human traits in their makeup.

[khatre]

Keep in mind, the whispers in Harry's mind didn't actually stop due to the empowered steel circle around the coin. Lasciel's shadow was already firmly implanted in his noggin, and just decided to play along with his expectations. She also made it clear more than once that the circle would not block Harry from summoning the coin, either.

Lash whispered to Harry. Lasciel did not. (at least before GS, GS and later different story)
Circles stop powers Inside the circle not outside. Harry was outside the circle thus he could take any action he wanted including break the circle and summon the coin. Lasciel was Inside the circle. People Inside circles can not effect anything outside the circle. I have never seen any conclusive proof that Lash was playing along with Harry's expectations about the circle isolating Lasciel.

[DragonEyes]

Fae are a species that literally grow in size as they grow in influence and power. Their evolution is at least partly due to their use of the Stone Table as a conduit of power and responsibility. They probably did not look human at all before our monkey forefathers descended from the trees, but were probably smart enough to change themselves once they realized how influential we were. Even so, they still retain quite a few non-human traits in their makeup.

This is only known to be true at certain power levels. Past a certain point, size doesn't seem to matter anymore. Lea is described as being taller than Mab, but Mab is more powerful.

[Paladino]

Fae are a species that literally grow in size as they grow in influence and power. Their evolution is at least partly due to their use of the Stone Table as a conduit of power and responsibility. They probably did not look human at all before our monkey forefathers descended from the trees, but were probably smart enough to change themselves once they realized how influential we were. Even so, they still retain quite a few non-human traits in their makeup.

So we could assume that their apparance and ways are much influenced by whom they interact in the mortal world? In other worlds the apparance they have now is not the same they used to? As they went on doing deals with Humans and interact with them is that they got to be what they are now?

I find hard to imagine they doing deals with anything before we showed.. Also If they were diferent then they are today, where they got the obligations/influence perk that allowed they to grow, if it didn't existed before mankind came along..

[Orladdin]

Fae are a species that literally grow in size as they grow in influence and power. Their evolution is at least partly due to their use of the Stone Table as a conduit of power and responsibility. They probably did not look human at all before our monkey forefathers descended from the trees, but were probably smart enough to change themselves once they realized how influential we were. Even so, they still retain quite a few non-human traits in their makeup.

... either that, or we created them from our beliefs.  Consider the Oblivion War: How that the faeries were not wiped out as planned because the Brothers Grimm published their book, reigniting interest and belief.

The Fae are simply spirits-- just very specific spirits with real, material bodies.

This is only known to be true at certain power levels. Past a certain point, size doesn't seem to matter anymore. Lea is described as being taller than Mab, but Mab is more powerful.

It could also be that fae can be whatever form they want to be, and they "feel" bigger when they have more power or influence.

[wyltok]

Circles stop powers Inside the circle not outside.

Actually, they work both ways. See Butters vs. Corpsetaker's ghosts, and Harry vs. Binder's Grey Men. Circles are nothing more than Magical Boundaries. They separate Here from There, but don't care whether you perceive Here to be inside or outside the circle.

Harry [...] could take any action he wanted including break the circle and summon the coin.

That is a very good point. Free will, after all, is one of the things we know to break circles. So you're right; the circle was never intended to stop him from summoning the coin, and I was wrong to think that it would hinder him in any way.

Lash whispered to Harry. I have never seen any conclusive proof that Lash was playing along with Harry's expectations about the circle isolating Lasciel.

Lash stopped whispering (well, playing Rock & Roll) as soon as he empowered the circle at the end of Death Masks. She didn't need to stop; it's not like she was inside the circle, after all. If you don't think that was Lash playing along, what exactly do you think happened?

[Serack]

I had to step away while writing this response and 3 others were posted in the mean time... I'll read those responses after posting this.

Keep in mind, the whispers in Harry's mind didn't actually stop due to the empowered steel circle around the coin. Lasciel's shadow was already firmly implanted in his noggin, and just decided to play along with his expectations. She also made it clear more than once that the circle would not block Harry from summoning the coin, either.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

The way you write this, the prison did nothing except motivate the Shadow to change tatics and pretend it was working.  IMO, until Harry built the prison, Lasciel had an active link to her shadow in Harry, and once he built the prison, the link was sort of severed, and the Shadow was severly hampered in it's options of how to influence Harry.

If nothing else, prison actually served as is a concrete choice to reject Lasciel's influence, thus forcing her shadow to utalize much more subtle methods to gain influence over him.  But I am going to hold to the idea that making this prison severly limited Lasciel's shadow's influence over him.

Jim actually wrote the Lasciel story line into DM as a last minute whim.  He probably didn't work out exactly what the mechanics of the prison and shadow were until after the fact.

What twist has the series taken that even surprised you? I am constantly surprised by the twists and turns.
The whole Lasciel’s coin plot was something I instigated on the spur of the moment back in book 5, and which isn’t over yet. Lots of things happen that aren’t specifically spelled out, but which can be woven into the overstory plot that I’ve been pursuing. I expect new stuff will continue seeping out of my subconscious and prove to fit pretty smoothly into the outline. 

[Paladino]

Lash stopped whispering (well, playing Rock & Roll) as soon as he empowered the circle at the end of Death Masks. She didn't need to stop; it's not like she was inside the circle, after all. If you don't think that was Lash playing along, what exactly do you think happened?

Actually I think he stopped Lasciel direct whispering and conection to her shadow. Lash mention in DB she couldn't contact him before he used hellfire on purpose. So warding the coin did have some kind of effect.

[khatre]

I have seen the opinion expressed that the circle Never stopped Lasciel from contacting her shadow or Harry. Some people believe that the circle had never done anything and was essentially a waste of time.
I disagree with that opinion. 
I think it worked as intended and isolated Lasciel until Lash "died" and freed Harry from the link.

[knnn]

I remember there being something somewhere about a threshold helping maintain a ward's power, but I'm not sure if that could be within the canon, since I can't find it in my WoJ compilation.  Here's the best WoJ I have on the subject.

In Turn Coat, the "Faraday Cage" Harry built has wards that will only last once.  His excuse "There's only so much I can do without a threshold".

[Ms Duck]

I am of the big opinion that the circle was a waste of time. For the following reasons: lash and harry both said in later books that the instant he touched the coin, lash entered him. Two, if the fallen could direclty contact the host prior to being chosen, why need a shadow at all? Its superflous. Three, in DB lash admits she tricked harry- and harry said she knows how to trick a wizard. Four- it fits the plot; pretending to be trapped is how she set up the shiela scheme. Five- how could lasciel know the song? Six- harry changed the circle several times, and lasciel didnt move back in. Seven- the fallen are so powerfull thier limits are laregly only the inate ones. If a spell circle could hold them, they would have been taken out long ago.