Sponsored Magic Master List

[Hick Jr]

It doesn't accomplish that point, then. It'll almost never be worth using, and when it is it usually won't be on an attack.

Could you clarify, please? I'm not entirely sure about it myself and will probably remove it if nobody provides me with a compelling reason to keep it. The bonus to destruction is plenty, IMO.

[Cadd]

Could you clarify, please? I'm not entirely sure about it myself and will probably remove it if nobody provides me with a compelling reason to keep it. The bonus to destruction is plenty, IMO.

I really like the idea, due to the fact that it encourages taking lost control as fallout instead of backlash and over-reaching with power. The details of how it should do that is less obvious to me though. At first I figured it would be awesome but as Sancta said, as long as the control deficit is 4 or less, you get an equal or better net result on attacks with an invoke (Invoke for +2 to the control roll would give both +2 damage from the to-hit roll and +2 Weapon rating for a net +4 stress done). Maneuvers might gain more from it, as there's no gain from excess control there...

[Sanctaphrax]

At first I figured it would be awesome but as Sancta said, as long as the control deficit is 4 or less, you get an equal or better net result on attacks with an invoke (Invoke for +2 to the control roll would give both +2 damage from the to-hit roll and +2 Weapon rating for a net +4 stress done). Maneuvers might gain more from it, as there's no gain from excess control there...

Yep.

Attacks benefit far less from this effect than blocks do. Making an accuracy 7 attack weapon 15 instead of weapon 9 is pretty useful, but how often do you overclock your spellcasting like that? And when you do, how confident are you that your opponent won't dodge?

So on the rare occasions when you really want to cut loose, you'll usually be better off dropping an offensive block that totally paralyses your target.

[Belial666]

How about changing the benefit like this;

Uncontrolled Power: Hellfire can offer power at the cost of control. When wielding Hellfire for any magic, taking fallout functions as if you had taken backlash, not reducing your spells' power but still damaging the environment. In addition, if you're casting a spell that deals stress or is otherwise destructive, you may get up to +2 bonus in power; if that bonus would exceed your control you must cast with fallout, not backlash.

[Cadd]

That looks cool to me! It also looks like just the thing to throw in as a compel on sponsor debt in situations where collateral damage is extra bad... I like it!

[Mr. Death]

It doesn't accomplish that point, then. It'll almost never be worth using, and when it is it usually won't be on an attack.

There are times when higher power at this cost can be useful.

Generally speaking, an attack roll of 5 or 6 is going to be enough to land a hit on most things; so with this effect, once your effective Discipline is up that high, you could pour all the rest of your resources, refinements, foci, whatever, into boosting power.

Say you've got someone with Discipline and Conviction both at 5. This version is going to make all attack spells 7 easily; two slots in offensive power will push that up to 9, which means that someone can cast a Weapon:12 spell before taking a consequence for it. Weapon:14 at a mild, which they've got two of if they've got Conviction at 5.

Sounds useful to me.

[Sanctaphrax]

How about changing the benefit like this;

Uncontrolled Power: Hellfire can offer power at the cost of control. When wielding Hellfire for any magic, taking fallout functions as if you had taken backlash, not reducing your spells' power but still damaging the environment. In addition, if you're casting a spell that deals stress or is otherwise destructive, you may get up to +2 bonus in power; if that bonus would exceed your control you must cast with fallout, not backlash.

Not sure what that last phrase means. I'm guessing it prevents you from taking backlash if you choose to use that bonus and then fail your control roll. Not sure though. I'd probably drop that limitation, and maybe limit the fallout bonus to attacks.

There are times when higher power at this cost can be useful.

Generally speaking, an attack roll of 5 or 6 is going to be enough to land a hit on most things; so with this effect, once your effective Discipline is up that high, you could pour all the rest of your resources, refinements, foci, whatever, into boosting power.

Say you've got someone with Discipline and Conviction both at 5. This version is going to make all attack spells 7 easily; two slots in offensive power will push that up to 9, which means that someone can cast a Weapon:12 spell before taking a consequence for it. Weapon:14 at a mild, which they've got two of if they've got Conviction at 5.

Sounds useful to me.

An attack roll of 5 or 6 will hit most things as long as it's not too important, but once you pump up the weapon rating FP come out and things become less certain.

More importantly...take your hypothetical spellcaster and replace their power bonuses with control bonuses. They now do just as much damage, hit more often, and don't need to burn Sponsor Debt to avoid losing power. Taking power is only better if you're not focusing on attacks.

[Mr. Death]

An attack roll of 5 or 6 will hit most things as long as it's not too important, but once you pump up the weapon rating FP come out and things become less certain.

It'd work wonders on crowds of goons, though, as zone attacks.

More importantly...take your hypothetical spellcaster and replace their power bonuses with control bonuses. They now do just as much damage, hit more often, and don't need to burn Sponsor Debt to avoid losing power. Taking power is only better if you're not focusing on attacks.

Thematically speaking, that goes against Hellfire and how it's typically used. Hellfire isn't for precision and lots of control -- it's about power and damage. The kind of character who's going to go the Hellfire route instead of other available ones is the kind of character who's going to err toward power.

[Sanctaphrax]

It'd work wonders on crowds of goons, though, as zone attacks.
Thematically speaking, that goes against Hellfire and how it's typically used. Hellfire isn't for precision and lots of control -- it's about power and damage

Exactly!

That's why I want Hellfire to make power over control into a good choice. If someone with Hellfire is better off pumping control over power, or if Hellfire is better at blocks than attacks, then something is wrong.

[Mr. Death]

Exactly!

That's why I want Hellfire to make power over control into a good choice. If someone with Hellfire is better off pumping control over power, or if Hellfire is better at blocks than attacks, then something is wrong.

Given the way magic is cast in this game, control is always going to be better than power when you're talking about mechanics and attacks.

I don't see the sponsored magics as being about optimization -- they're about theme and flavor. What I'm saying is you're not going to take Hellfire so much because its unique mechanics make it so that throwing more power into a spell works better; you're going to take it because it lets you put more power into a spell than other magics.

[Belial666]

My version of Hellfire does make Power (marginally) better than control, assuming you got enough control to hit in the first place. Take a submerged guy with Evocation + Hellfire plus superb casting skills.

1) This guy hits with Power 5, Control 6 evocations before any bonuses. Enough to hit in most cases.

2) He had a +2 power focus to offensive fire via Evo, which he upgrades to +4. He can now cast Power 9, Control 6 evocations before bonuses, if he accepts fallout. The zone the spell is aimed at is going to take a 3-shift environmental hazard in addition to his aimed spells. As long as he isn't in that zone personally, that's yet another danger for his enemies.

3) He factors in the Hellfire bonus to Power for harmful spells. He can now cast at Power 11, Control 6, and the environmental hazards from Fallout come at 5 shifts.

4) Through continued use of Hellfire he's practiced enough to get a Refinement for +2 specialization to fire Power, and he's gotten the second stage of Lawbreaker 1st and the "All Kittens Must Die" aspect. He now casts at Power 13, Control 8 for harmful spells, still with Fallout hazards of 5 shifts.


Not too shabby. As long as he's careful not to burn himself with his Evocations, he should be fine.

[Hick Jr]

Okay, I'll just keep the fallout=backlash thing. It makes it worth [-5] and I was planning on keeping it costed like that anyway.

Now for Tenebromancy. I'm working my way through watching Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, so Pride has a heavy influence on this. God, I want to use this on a character.

Suggestions for a better Extra Benefit would be appreciated.

TENEBROMANCY 2.0 [-4]
Description:You've learned to wield shadow magic, a dark reflection of normal magic. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't evil. It's dark. It's reflective. It isn't particularly nice. But then, neither is regular magic.
Sponsor:The collective ur-intellect composed of the world's billions of shadows. It can also be provided by gods or demons whose portfolios include night, shadow, or darkness.
Agenda:Shadows aren't really clever enough to have an agenda, but they'd like it if the sun went out, or was permanently eclipsed. Destroying sources of light is generally enough for them. They also like it when you kill photomancers and Summerfae. If provided by a god or demon, that god or demon.
Evocation:Rather obviously, shadows and darkness. Besides manifesting corporeal shadows, you also manipulate cold, gravity, obfuscation, deception, and reflections.
Thaumaturgy: Tenebromantic rituals can obscure things, conjure objects out of shadow-stuff, summon creatures of darkness, scry through shadows, teleport through shadows, and consume people's shadows.
Evothaum:You can use any ritual you can cast with Tenebromancy at Evocation's speed and methods.
Extra Benefits: You gain the Cloak of Shadows power.

[bobjob]

Now for Tenebromancy. I'm working my way through watching Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, so Pride has a heavy influence on this. God, I want to use this on a character.

Suggestions for a better Extra Benefit would be appreciated.

TENEBROMANCY 2.0 [-4]
Evocation:Rather obviously, shadows and darkness. Besides manifesting corporeal shadows, you also manipulate cold, gravity, obfuscation, deception, and reflections. 

I think the Extra Benefit is right in line with Tenebromancy.

As for the Evocation elements, where does Gravity come into play? Is that something they did with the inspirational material (Full Metal Alchemist)? How exactly is it justified?

[Hick Jr]

I think the Extra Benefit is right in line with Tenebromancy.

As for the Evocation elements, where does Gravity come into play? Is that something they did with the inspirational material (Full Metal Alchemist)? How exactly is it justified?

It's thematically appropriate, yeah, but I generally like Extra Benefits to be esoteric
Or more interesting than a straight +2 bonus.

It's partially from One Piece (Yama Yama no Mi or something like that), and from the association of shadows with black holes and things like that.

[bobjob]

It's thematically appropriate, yeah, but I generally like Extra Benefits to be esoteric
Or more interesting than a straight +2 bonus.

It's partially from One Piece (Yama Yama no Mi or something like that), and from the association of shadows with black holes and things like that.

I don't think it would be out of line for it to provide Cloak of Shadows and maybe lower the toughness of light or fire based baddies.