Sponsored Magic Master List

[Locnil]

For me, taking Hellfire meant I had to reallocate all my foci for a situation that I wasn't always spellcasting for (hurting people).

Tell me if I'm wrong here: Tessa throws a Hellfire-lightning bolt at Weapon:11. Her control roll is only +8. She takes three shifts of fallout, but the spell is still Weapon:11?

IIRC, if you take fallout instead of backlash you lose the power given to fallout. So it'll be a weapon: 8 spell.

Come to think of it, that might be a good idea for Hellfire's extra benefit - when taking fallout, you can still keep your spell's full power as if you were taking backlash. In fact I think I saw a warlock build once that had this ability.

[Hick Jr]

Come to think of it, that might be a good idea for Hellfire's extra benefit - when taking fallout, you can still keep your spell's full power as if you were taking backlash. In fact I think I saw a warlock build once that had this ability.

Another idea: Hellfire could let you take fallout without reducing the power of your spell. That'd make it optimal for the user to focus on power over control, and for them to inflict ridiculous amounts of damage to their surroundings when fighting. Might be abusable if unlimited, though.

...

Given that it's being suggested via some kind of hive mind, i'll offer this one some serious thought. It's a powerful ability, for sure. It gives you the environment-wrecking aspect of Hellfire while not detracting from your spell strength, but I'm still leaning towards the straight bonus to certain types of spellcasting.

[Locnil]

Oops, didn't see that. 

Tbh it's still not optimal to focus on power over control though, as control is more important than power when it comes to attacking. And fallout can work against you. And end of the day it doesn't actually give a bonus to anything. If it were up to me I'll add it as another benefit over and beyond the base benefit, as its value is mostly flavour, but well.

[Mr. Death]

Discussing it with my players, one of them suggested making that function an invoke on Hellfire's destructive aspect.

[Hick Jr]

Hmm. +2 to "destructive" spells, take fallout with no Power reduction with Sponsor Debt. Sounds like a [-5] magic to me. I'll make the adjustments.


HELLFIRE V.2.1 [-5]
Description: You are a wielder of Hellfire, the power of Hell and the fire of Destruction.
Sponsor: Hell. Can also be granted by demons or demon lords, or even Lucifer himself.
Agenda: The sinister agenda of Hell. May correspond to the agenda of a specific demon if granted by a specific demon. Destroy things. Be wrathful, prideful, vengeful, greedy, envious, lustful, slothful, or gluttony.
Evocation: Hellfire typically involves a brimstone-reeking angry crimson flame, but can also include elements of raw destruction, smoke, darkness, death, corruption, sin, and unholiness
Thaumaturgy: Hellfire grants it’s users the ability to use demonic energies in their rituals, curse their foes, and strike them down from afar, granting Diabolism, Entropomancy, and Disruption.
Evothaum: Normally, any ritual that can be cast with Hellfire can be cast with Evocation’s speed and methods, but the sponsor (be it Hell itself, Lucifer, or a demon lord) might demand a point of sponsor debt on specific occasions.
Extra Benefits: Hellfire is a force of destruction, and when employed in such spells, it’s power is awful to behold. Any spell involving destruction or sin cast with Hellfire gains 2 extra shifts: an attack’s Weapon rating would rise by +2, an evothaumic Might roll to break a wall would gain a +2 bonus, and a psychomantic block blasting the target with greed would gain a +2 bonus. In addition, spells enhanced by Hellfire retain their devastating power no matter how poorly controlled: When casting a spell with Hellfire, you can take take a point of Sponsor Debt in order to take shifts of fallout without reducing the actual power of the spell.

[narphoenix]

Oops, didn't see that. 

Tbh it's still not optimal to focus on power over control though, as control is more important than power when it comes to attacking. And fallout can work against you. And end of the day it doesn't actually give a bonus to anything. If it were up to me I'll add it as another benefit over and beyond the base benefit, as its value is mostly flavour, but well.

It actually gives a substantial bonus even if you don't change your Refinements around for it. I mean, let's say your base spellcasting is +7 control, Weapon:7 in the element of your choice. But let's say you have an enemy you want to nuke horribly, who's easy to hit but hard to hurt (like someone with big size powers). So, you take a moderate and two mild consequences and cross out your fourth bubble of mental stress. Now you're still throwing off of +7 (maybe +9 because you probably are willing to spend a FP/take a Sponsor Debt to kill this guy), but your attack is Weapon:/18/. If you can make fallout without losing /any/ power, you're keeping it at Weapon:18 without taking Severe/Extreme Consequences to stay in the game like you would with Backlash.

[Sanctaphrax]

For me, taking Hellfire meant I had to reallocate all my foci for a situation that I wasn't always spellcasting for (hurting people).

You know, there's no rule saying your power and control have to be equal.

Tell me if I'm wrong here: Tessa throws a Hellfire-lightning bolt at Weapon:11. Her control roll is only +8. She takes three shifts of fallout, but the spell is still Weapon:11?

Yes.

And end of the day it doesn't actually give a bonus to anything.

Sure it does. It gives a bonus to the power of every spell with a blown control roll, except for the ones where you choose to take backlash.

Discussing it with my players, one of them suggested making that function an invoke on Hellfire's destructive aspect.

It'd be pretty rare for that to be better than just invoking for a better control roll. That's a really weak benefit.

Also there's no reason why you couldn't invoke an Aspect to negate fallout-related power reduction without Hellfire.

Any spell involving destruction or sin...

That's every spell cast with Hellfire.

[Locnil]

It actually gives a substantial bonus even if you don't change your Refinements around for it. I mean, let's say your base spellcasting is +7 control, Weapon:7 in the element of your choice. But let's say you have an enemy you want to nuke horribly, who's easy to hit but hard to hurt (like someone with big size powers). So, you take a moderate and two mild consequences and cross out your fourth bubble of mental stress. Now you're still throwing off of +7 (maybe +9 because you probably are willing to spend a FP/take a Sponsor Debt to kill this guy), but your attack is Weapon:/18/. If you can make fallout without losing /any/ power, you're keeping it at Weapon:18 without taking Severe/Extreme Consequences to stay in the game like you would with Backlash.

Ah yes, that would be one scenario. I typically design my spellcasters to have control in excess of power, under the assumption I could just boost power at any time, so it didn't occur to me. But for a build that balances the two it would be quite useful.

[Locnil]

Sure it does. It gives a bonus to the power of every spell with a blown control roll, except for the ones where you choose to take backlash.

Like I said above, scenarios like that didn't occur to me, since it's optimal to have more control than power anyway, but I can see how it might be useful.

[Hick Jr]

You know, there's no rule saying your power and control have to be equal.

I'm aware. It just makes things a little easier for me, math-wise, and makes the spellcasting a little more versatile. I'd obviously prefer to have control be four more than power in every case, but doing that without a ton of Refinements generally means that you're only good at attacking.


Hmm. Sanctaphrax is right. The extra benefit needs to be narrowed further. Just "destruction"? Any spell that destroys.

Situations like the one narphoenix outlined are exactly the way the extra benefit is meant to be used. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Destruction-only is probably a good idea.

[Hick Jr]

Final version of Hellfire. If this is good, I'd like all three revisions to be added to the list.

HELLFIRE V.2.2 [-5]
Description: You are a wielder of Hellfire, the power of Hell and the fire of Destruction.
Sponsor: Hell. Can also be granted by demons or demon lords, or even Lucifer himself.
Agenda: The sinister agenda of Hell. May correspond to the agenda of a specific demon if granted by a specific demon. Destroy things. Be wrathful, prideful, vengeful, greedy, envious, lustful, slothful, or gluttony.
Evocation: Hellfire typically involves a brimstone-reeking angry crimson flame, but can also include elements of raw destruction, smoke, darkness, death, corruption, sin, and unholiness
Thaumaturgy: Hellfire grants it’s users the ability to use demonic energies in their rituals, curse their foes, and strike them down from afar, granting Diabolism, Entropomancy, and Disruption.
Evothaum: Normally, any ritual that can be cast with Hellfire can be cast with Evocation’s speed and methods, but the sponsor (be it Hell itself, Lucifer, or a demon lord) might demand a point of sponsor debt on specific occasions.
Extra Benefits: Hellfire is a force of destruction, and when employed in such spells, it’s power is awful to behold. Any spell involving destruction cast with Hellfire gains 2 extra shifts that are controlled automatically: an evocation attack’s Weapon rating would rise by +2, an evothaumic Might roll to break a wall would gain a +2 bonus, and a ritual that caused a volcano to erupt would gain 2 shifts of complexity. In addition, spells enhanced by Hellfire retain their devastating power no matter how poorly controlled: When casting a spell with Hellfire, you can take take a point of Sponsor Debt in order to take shifts of fallout without reducing the actual power of the spell.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think you should clarify whether the shifts are auto-controlled.

And I still think the debt-based fallout-control is kinda useless, given that even if you fail a control roll by 4 you'll still get a better attack by invoking for a standard +2.

[Hick Jr]

I think you should clarify whether the shifts are auto-controlled.

And I still think the debt-based fallout-control is kinda useless, given that even if you fail a control roll by 4 you'll still get a better attack by invoking for a standard +2.

Clarified that the shifts are indeed automatically controlled.

I think the point of the unlimited-fallout thing was to let evokers throw gigantic attacks that would normally cost them several stress/consequences in backlash or fallout for the price of a Compel.

[Sanctaphrax]

It doesn't accomplish that point, then. It'll almost never be worth using, and when it is it usually won't be on an attack.