Need some Advice on Pricing a Power

[admiralducksauce]

Hey all,

I've got a custom power in mind for an item of power but I'm not sure how I should price it.  I don't even have name for the power.

The Item/Power grants the user a +1 to Weapons under normal circumstances, but this bonus increases to +2 when the user is personally outnumbered 2 to 1, +3 when outnumbered 3 to 1, and so on, up to a maximum of... well, I haven't decided that either.  I'm tempted to cap it at +4.

I feel like it's a -2 power.  It can be terribly effective given certain circumstances, but a -3 power is like, Evocation, and this isn't anywhere near that level of utility.  But it's more useful than a -1 power... isn't it?  I feel like it's like 2 stunts stuck together: 1 stunt for a +1 to Weapons, and 1 stunt to cover the increasing bonuses while outnumbered.  Maybe like 3 stunts' worth of power, but that seems to fall nicely into a -2 power range.

Thoughts?  Am I way off base?  Am I not seeing really obvious exploits arising from this?

[Orladdin]

Am I not seeing really obvious exploits arising from this?

Chitchen Itza:  Harry's outnumbered 20,000 to 1.  He now has a +19,999 to weapons.  He can attack and block with his staff at an average of 20,003 in each exchange.

[Haru]

Well, -1 for the +1 weapons baseline sounds good. After that, it is +1 attack skill under a specific set of circumstances, which usually requires a stunt and therefore a point of refresh of it's own. On the other hand, the circumstance is becoming increasingly less likely to happen, so I think you should be good with -2 for the package.

On the other hand he would be starting to fight fairly often against multiple enemies, and if you grant him the bonus flat out to the weapons skill, then the more opponents he fights, the less likely it is going to be that they will hit him, since he also uses it to parry.

Alternatively, you could have him get a free tag on every "outnumbered" or similar aspect that is placed/invoked on him or his allies, which would make the bonus a bit more flexible but also a bit less powerful.

[Orladdin]

To be a little less ridiculous about it: even if you cap it at +4, that means that when someone is outnumbered, by having this power, they go from near-certain death to almost impossibly powerful.  Who else can get a +4 on weapons?  Remember, the fudge dice alone cannot possibly surmount that kind of power differential.

[InFerrumVeritas]

If you want it to scale, have it scale differently:

+1 normally.

+2 vs. 3/1

+3 vs. 6/1

Cap at +3 (like Lawbreaker caps there).

-2 power would be good then.

[Silverblaze]

If you want it to scale, have it scale differently:

+1 normally.

+2 vs. 3/1

+3 vs. 6/1

Cap at +3 (like Lawbreaker caps there).

-2 power would be good then.

Fairly good idea.

I'd use a scale of:

+1 @ outnumbered
+2 @ outnumbered 5:1
+3 @ outnumbered 10:1 or more.

You could just make it a stunt tree. 

-1 refresh just like "Target Rich Environment"
-1 additional for the extra boost "insert name here"
-1 additional refresh for the final boost "The '300' Have Got Nothin' On Me!"

[wyvern]

I'd go with Silverblaze's suggestion, cost it at +2 as a power, and add the limitation that you only get the bonus when in a situation that is clearly in keeping with the weapon's agenda.  Even the swords of the cross don't grant their +1 weapons all the time.

[admiralducksauce]

Chitchen Itza:  Harry's outnumbered 20,000 to 1.  He now has a +19,999 to weapons.  He can attack and block with his staff at an average of 20,003 in each exchange.

Clearly, there's going to be a maximum.  I said I was thinking about +4 but

To be a little less ridiculous about it: even if you cap it at +4, that means that when someone is outnumbered, by having this power, they go from near-certain death to almost impossibly powerful.  Who else can get a +4 on weapons?  Remember, the fudge dice alone cannot possibly surmount that kind of power differential.

Is a good point.  I also like the symmetry with Lawbreaker, as InFerrumVeritas suggests, so I'd cap the bonus at +3.

It sounds like we're mostly agreed on it being a -2 power, the main discrepancy is how many enemies does it take for the bonuses to increase, and the nice thing about that is everyone can adjust that to fit their game pretty easily.

[Orladdin]

To put it in perspective: getting a +4 on something is similar to getting a +20 on something in D&D.  It's just silly-good.

[InFerrumVeritas]

To put it in perspective: getting a +4 on something is similar to getting a +20 on something in D&D.  It's just silly-good.

Only even less statistically likely.

[Katarn]

Fairly good idea.

I'd use a scale of:

+1 @ outnumbered
+2 @ outnumbered 5:1
+3 @ outnumbered 10:1 or more.

You could just make it a stunt tree. 

-1 refresh just like "Target Rich Environment"
-1 additional for the extra boost "insert name here"
-1 additional refresh for the final boost "The '300' Have Got Nothin' On Me!"

I like the stunt tree idea, using the 1/5/10 being successive stunts.  Given that typically dice don't roll (far) outside the base skill, the 1:1 boost gets broken even in a bar fight.  The lower ramp, with the cap, is much more balanced.