Author Topic: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.  (Read 595944 times)

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1890 on: February 18, 2012, 03:57:15 AM »
I killed an entire party as DM just by dropping an evil talkign book into a random treasure pile. It promised mad skills to one player who used it on the dark of the moon, but there could only be one.

the rest fo the module was blank.

lol

took the party three days to betray, steal, murder, and poison each toehr.
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline Don

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1891 on: February 18, 2012, 03:59:46 AM »
She wasn't arguing that, so much as questioning how I was legitimately putting those two seemingly contradictory ideas together into a plausible argument.

I see.  Well, if memory serves (and I'm too tired to consult outside sources at the moment), we're dealing with Hobbe and Locke at the same time.  They were both Contractualists, meaning that the people had a natural interest to sign over some of their rights to a higher power (i.e., the State).

Their starting principles were very different, though.  They both reflected on what was termed, "the state of nature" (methinks).  They had very different ideas of what the state of nature was like, though.  Hobbes has a pessimistic view that humanity was in a state of perpetual war where Locke though that people lived in general peace, but the majority of disputes had to do with property rights.  These ideas greatly influence their conceptions of "the Social Contract" itself.

So Hobbes argues that the only solution was for people to sign all of their rights away to "the Sovereign" or "the Leviathan" while Locke developed the ida of limited government, centered around separation of powers.

But if you take Hobbes's view of the state of nature, separation of power isn't going to do much good.  Seeing as though instead of one Sovereign, you might end up with a group of sovereigns in collusion (i.e., oligarchy).  And we have empiricle evidence that oligarchies can, in fact, be absolutist (Fascist Italy is the boldest recent example). 

Locke's idea that separation of powers only works if you have Locke's point of view about the general nature of humanity.  But again, we have empirical evidence in regard to Locke's theories.  It's called the United States.  Originally, the Founders modeled the Constitution on Locke's principles, but they did not stop by merely separating powers.  They also built in constitutional limitations on each of the branches, because they were suspicious of a powerful state in any form.  They also diffused power between the Federal and state governments.  Two years later they also included the Bill of Rights (further limitations).  And let's not forget the Civil War.  After this, the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments were passed.  The 14th amendment is not very well known, but it is by far the most important amendment in the Constitution in regard to civil liberties. 

Theories are just starting points.  Once put into practice, they are never the way they are on paper.  Without these limits, we very well could be an absolute state today.

I don't know if you modeled your argument like the above, but yes, I agree with your conclusion.  Sorry for the long-windedness  :)
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.

Offline ۞†Grey Warden†۞

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1892 on: February 18, 2012, 04:00:02 AM »
I killed an entire party as DM just by dropping an evil talkign book into a random treasure pile. It promised mad skills to one player who used it on the dark of the moon, but there could only be one.

the rest fo the module was blank.

lol

took the party three days to betray, steal, murder, and poison each toehr.

I would love to be DM for fun things like that, however i refused to play after that citing explicitely that they were all assholes lol
Sir  Reginald.
I will miss you, my friend Mdodd. May you find peace.
Snowy,  I am rooting for you. I hope you remain happy and as comfortable as possible.

How many steps to the lighthouse?

Offline Don

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1893 on: February 18, 2012, 04:01:07 AM »
Resurrection staff was a bad idea with us, but very funny.

Is that the subcommittee that met during the three days after Good Friday?
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1894 on: February 18, 2012, 04:03:11 AM »
I would love to be DM for fun things like that, however i refused to play after that citing explicitely that they were all assholes lol

next fave dm- had a player go way off track during temploe of elemental evil ( he did soemthign stupid and the thieves guild saw him) so i made up a plot twist on the spot of the thieves breaking into thier place and frmaing the party for 'orrible crimes.

ever see a paladin try to decide wether to be executed for false charges or fight his way free, killign many innocent police?
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline Doroga's Cousin

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1895 on: February 18, 2012, 04:04:20 AM »
I see.  Well, if memory serves (and I'm too tired to consult outside sources at the moment), we're dealing with Hobbe and Locke at the same time.  They were both Contractualists, meaning that the people had a natural interest to sign over some of their rights to a higher power (i.e., the State).

Their starting principles were very different, though.  They both reflected on what was termed, "the state of nature" (methinks).  They had very different ideas of what the state of nature was like, though.  Hobbes has a pessimistic view that humanity was in a state of perpetual war where Locke though that people lived in general peace, but the majority of disputes had to do with property rights.  These ideas greatly influence their conceptions of "the Social Contract" itself.

So Hobbes argues that the only solution was for people to sign all of their rights away to "the Sovereign" or "the Leviathan" while Locke developed the ida of limited government, centered around separation of powers.

But if you take Hobbes's view of the state of nature, separation of power isn't going to do much good.  Seeing as though instead of one Sovereign, you might end up with a group of sovereigns in collusion (i.e., oligarchy).  And we have empiricle evidence that oligarchies can, in fact, be absolutist (Fascist Italy is the boldest recent example). 

Locke's idea that separation of powers only works if you have Locke's point of view about the general nature of humanity.  But again, we have empirical evidence in regard to Locke's theories.  It's called the United States.  Originally, the Founders modeled the Constitution on Locke's principles, but they did not stop by merely separating powers.  They also built in constitutional limitations on each of the branches, because they were suspicious of a powerful state in any form.  They also diffused power between the Federal and state governments.  Two years later they also included the Bill of Rights (further limitations).  And let's not forget the Civil War.  After this, the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments were passed.  The 14th amendment is not very well known, but it is by far the most important amendment in the Constitution in regard to civil liberties. 

Theories are just starting points.  Once put into practice, they are never the way they are on paper.  Without these limits, we very well could be an absolute state today.

I don't know if you modeled your argument like the above, but yes, I agree with your conclusion.  Sorry for the long-windedness  :)
My argument may not be the soundest as I haven't really factored in the implications of creating a state and how theory and reality differentiate, but I think from a hypothetical point of view the argument makes a certain amount of sense. Besides, I liked reading your interpretation. No need to apologize.
Is it just me or is it getting a little solipsistic in here?

Offline ۞†Grey Warden†۞

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1896 on: February 18, 2012, 04:04:56 AM »
next fave dm- had a player go way off track during temploe of elemental evil ( he did soemthign stupid and the thieves guild saw him) so i made up a plot twist on the spot of the thieves breaking into thier place and frmaing the party for 'orrible crimes.

ever see a paladin try to decide wether to be executed for false charges or fight his way free, killign many innocent police?

A moral dilema those are fun, I had a few paladin characters and ran into a few of those. Basically half those characters i tried to make into michael but never had enough time
Sir  Reginald.
I will miss you, my friend Mdodd. May you find peace.
Snowy,  I am rooting for you. I hope you remain happy and as comfortable as possible.

How many steps to the lighthouse?

Offline Don

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1897 on: February 18, 2012, 04:06:50 AM »
My argument may not be the soundest as I haven't really factored in the implications of creating a state and how theory and reality differentiate, but I think from a hypothetical point of view the argument makes a certain amount of sense. Besides, I liked reading your interpretation. No need to apologize.

I'm just excited that something you're interested in academically overlaps with something i'm interested in for once ;D
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1898 on: February 18, 2012, 04:07:52 AM »
A moral dilema those are fun, I had a few paladin characters and ran into a few of those. Basically half those characters i tried to make into michael but never had enough time

we should set up a dnd game in the games section
Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline Doroga's Cousin

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1899 on: February 18, 2012, 04:08:16 AM »
I'm just excited that something you're interested in academically overlaps with something i'm interested in for once ;D
Quite a shock, isn't it? :D
Is it just me or is it getting a little solipsistic in here?

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1900 on: February 18, 2012, 04:08:48 AM »
I was in similar situations, Duckie. I had no doubt, dying. Hubby (GM) was trying to save me because of plot reasons. Fight.

Don, LOL!!
And I guess that is why so many politicias hate the power of the state. Inherited ideas  :)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline ۞†Grey Warden†۞

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1901 on: February 18, 2012, 04:11:46 AM »
we should set up a dnd game in the games section

I would join but i dont have any of the rules, so you would have to explain them to me or i would have to look online which would be really easy so i would be in. But remember im still kinda a beginner only going through one campaign i had nearly 26 people. i think they forced stuff to happen after  i died a couple times.
Sir  Reginald.
I will miss you, my friend Mdodd. May you find peace.
Snowy,  I am rooting for you. I hope you remain happy and as comfortable as possible.

How many steps to the lighthouse?

Offline Ms Duck

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1902 on: February 18, 2012, 04:16:04 AM »
ever play paranoia? the whole point is to die, in as hillarious fashion as possible.

one of my toons got strapped to the udnerbelly of a nuclear pwoered tank to be used as a brake pad when the boss bad guy decided to keep me alive and ordered the tank to stop.

..oops

Yeah, but Germans and Hungarians don't pull people's theories out of their sockets when they're challenged.  Ducks are known to do that.


That's been disabled. But I can still CALL you Fup Duck. -Shecky

Offline Dina

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1903 on: February 18, 2012, 04:17:38 AM »
I played it! Very funny  :)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Don

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Re: Weird - caught us in mid conversation.
« Reply #1904 on: February 18, 2012, 04:17:59 AM »
I was in similar situations, Duckie. I had no doubt, dying. Hubby (GM) was trying to save me because of plot reasons. Fight.

Don, LOL!!
And I guess that is why so many politicias hate the power of the state. Inherited ideas  :)

Politicia?  We have a trem called "politico".  Those are people who are interested in politics as a hobby, but have no real experience in government.  Is that sort of the same thing?
Don is the Prince of Anarchy  :P

Please excuse my grammar, and speling.