Romero-Style Zombies

[Mr. Death]

I know the game and setting already have zombies, but I've always been fond of the slow, shambling George A. Romero style zombies, so I've been thinking of ways to implement them. Story-wise, it'd probably be the result of some botched attempt at real necromancy, or an Item of Power that was misused.

As for gameplay, I was thinking of having them fairly low refresh, and low skills, with Living Dead, maybe Claws and probably Venom if I go with the Claws. No Toughness powers. Use aspects to cover the 'mindlessly wanting to devour the living' bit.

Probably Fists ratings at 3, Endurance at 2, Athletics at 1, and 2 or 3 for Alertness. As for making them tough to keep down, rather than a Toughness power, I was thinking of having it so that, unless the players make a called shot to the head, the zombies will take every level of Consequence short of Extreme (and maybe give them the one Endurance stunt to double up on Mild consequences). Taken Out by burning would also do the trick. I feel like that'd best simulate the whole, 'bits get blown off but they just keep coming' factor.

And come to think of it, giving them a solid Might score so they can grapple is probably a good idea, too.

Any other ideas you guys might have that I'm not thinking of?

[wyvern]

Actually, I'd say Living Dead covers the "they just keep coming" factor.  You put a few bullets in one, it drops... and as soon as that scene ends, it's up and shambling after you again.

[admiralducksauce]

Hmm, that's a tricky problem IMO.  Romero zombies almost have a binary status: they're up and shambling or they're put down.

Your idea of having them take near-max consequences but without Toughness powers I think works, but bookkeeping could be problematic with large numbers.  And Romero zombies ALWAYS come in large numbers.

The pros of the "lots of consequences" option is that it allows PCs to mangle the zombies and derive periodic bonuses by tagging those consequences.  Just about any hit that lands will gradually help dismantle the things, too - with almost no Athletics to dodge with, nearly any hit will at least do SOMETHING.

A quicker way to model it could be to have a relatively tough Armor value and have the zombies take no consequences; indeed, maybe rule any hit that gets over their Armor takes them out.  It makes tracking larger groups easier because
1.  Any given zombie is either up 100% or dead.
2.  You can beat Armor ratings with attacks that are accurate enough (headshots) or damaging enough (grenades and heavy weapons), which covers most of the basic on how to take down zombies.  Just say the armor has a Catch for stuff like fire and things that would gradually kill a zombie regardless.

The downsides to that approach is that in a way, an Armor rating conceptually raises the difficulty to effectively hit the creature.  Whiff factor is going to go up and players might get frustrated.

[Sanctaphrax]

I wrote a custom power called Feel No Pain that might be handy here.

And Belial666 wrote up a creature called a Hunger Revenant that was horror-movie-zombie inspired. But it wasn't mook-level, so you might not be able to use it.

Neither should be hard to find.

I wouldn't give a zombie any Athletics at all.

[Ghsdkgb]

I threw some together once that basically had 0 in all stats and 10 stress boxes. Seemed to fit just fine.

[wyvern]

Hm... Actually, combine ducksauce's idea with the suggestion the books make somewhere-or-other for things with physical immunity: turn any successful-but-non-damaging attack into a maneuver.  So, you pepper the incoming zombie with bullets from your pistol, momentarily knocking it back / down, but it gets right up again and keeps coming until you line up a head shot (and get enough shifts to beat defense + armor).

[Mr. Death]

@wyvern:Those are good ideas, but it doesn't allow as much for debilitating hits that don't fully take out the zombie--things like blowing off its legs, or breaking it in half. I want them to be able to do that, and consequences would be a good way to model it.

@Admiralducksauce: I'm okay with a lot of bookkeeping, since I tend to use an excel spreadsheet to keep track of stress boxes and stuff in battle, and have so far had pretty fair success in keeping track of 10-ish combatants (usually 5-6 goons, 3-4 PCs). Plus, with the zombies, while there might be a huge number facing the PCs, really only the front five or six might actually be able to interact with the party so it's not that much to keep track of.

I wrote a custom power called Feel No Pain that might be handy here.

And Belial666 wrote up a creature called a Hunger Revenant that was horror-movie-zombie inspired. But it wasn't mook-level, so you might not be able to use it.

Neither should be hard to find.

I wouldn't give a zombie any Athletics at all.

Alright, I'll take a look at those. As for giving them Athletics, I figured they're still at least mobile, and ought to have some chance of pursuit (albeit slow) without going backward half the time.

[admiralducksauce]

@wyvern:Those are good ideas, but it doesn't allow as much for debilitating hits that don't fully take out the zombie--things like blowing off its legs, or breaking it in half. I want them to be able to do that, and consequences would be a good way to model it.

@Admiralducksauce: I'm okay with a lot of bookkeeping, since I tend to use an excel spreadsheet to keep track of stress boxes and stuff in battle, and have so far had pretty fair success in keeping track of 10-ish combatants (usually 5-6 goons, 3-4 PCs). Plus, with the zombies, while there might be a huge number facing the PCs, really only the front five or six might actually be able to interact with the party so it's not that much to keep track of.
Alright, I'll take a look at those. As for giving them Athletics, I figured they're still at least mobile, and ought to have some chance of pursuit (albeit slow) without going backward half the time.

My quibbles with your method evaporate if you've got a way to handle the bookkeeping, and it seems you do.

As for Athletics, I'd say against most PCs' combat skills a +1 or a +0 doesn't mean much.  But when it comes to movement, it can mean a lot.  Assuming the zombies roll Athletics to move towards the PCs every round, their goal is to roll a total of 2 or more, because they're gonna move 1 zone regardless.

With Athletics 1, each zombie's got about a 40% chance of rolling a +1 or more on the dice: a few zombies half-surge, half-stumble ahead of the pack as they get the "scent".  With Athletics 0, you need a +2 or better on the dice.  It drops the chances to around 20% per zombie, and significantly decreases the chances of a zombie moving 3 or more zones in a round.

For keeping the tension and providing more of a challenge to players, I'd probably err on the Athetics 1 side of things.  But again, it's all theoretical over here.

[fantazero]

I threw some together once that basically had 0 in all stats and 10 stress boxes. Seemed to fit just fine.

I like it , stolen

[Silverblaze]

Might I make a suggestion?

No stresses...zombies shouldn't feel stress.

Just consequences...simulating things getting blown off.  All zombies take all consequences possible.  The drive to feed is too strong.

This allows players to tag consequences faster killing zombies faster.  It also creates vivid imagery of limbs flying, zombies blown in half crawling forward (extreme consequence owned by a chainsaw...etc.) 

The downside is instead of only having to deal 11 to blow a zombies head off...you need to do 18. 

So I suppose I invalidated my suggestion....

Ah well, I like the idea all the same.

[Blackblade]

Might I make a suggestion?

No stresses...zombies shouldn't feel stress.

Just consequences...simulating things getting blown off.  All zombies take all consequences possible.  The drive to feed is too strong.

This allows players to tag consequences faster killing zombies faster.  It also creates vivid imagery of limbs flying, zombies blown in half crawling forward (extreme consequence owned by a chainsaw...etc.) 

The downside is instead of only having to deal 11 to blow a zombies head off...you need to do 18. 

So I suppose I invalidated my suggestion....

Ah well, I like the idea all the same.

Maybe a house rule, that if they get a +5 or above on the attack, it's an automatic headshot.

[UmbraLux]

Might I make a suggestion?

No stresses...zombies shouldn't feel stress.

Just consequences...simulating things getting blown off.  All zombies take all consequences possible.  The drive to feed is too strong.

This allows players to tag consequences faster killing zombies faster.  It also creates vivid imagery of limbs flying, zombies blown in half crawling forward (extreme consequence owned by a chainsaw...etc.) 

I like it.  May steal it someday! 

The downside is instead of only having to deal 11 to blow a zombies head off...you need to do 18. 

So I suppose I invalidated my suggestion....

Ah well, I like the idea all the same.

Not really.  Every attack that hits will cause a consequence since they have no stress track.  So it only takes five successful attacks to take it out.  (Fewer if your attacks are above what a given consequence can take.)  May want to add a toughness power (for the armor) to prevent successive one stress pings from dropping it.  Leave the catch as a head shot and you're good to go!

[Sanctaphrax]

So, how are people planning to get 10 stress/no stress? GM fiat? A custom power?

[Mr. Death]

Might I make a suggestion?

No stresses...zombies shouldn't feel stress.

Just consequences...simulating things getting blown off.  All zombies take all consequences possible.  The drive to feed is too strong.

This allows players to tag consequences faster killing zombies faster.  It also creates vivid imagery of limbs flying, zombies blown in half crawling forward (extreme consequence owned by a chainsaw...etc.) 

The downside is instead of only having to deal 11 to blow a zombies head off...you need to do 18. 

So I suppose I invalidated my suggestion....

Ah well, I like the idea all the same.

I was actually thinking of changing it to give them no Endurance skill, so they've only got the base two stress boxes. Given that the PCs will either come with weapons or fashion weapons of some kind in short order, it's not that far off from having no stress boxes.

Though maybe 'fresher' zombies might have a point in Endurance, a stunt like No Pain, No Gain or Tough Stuff, or even a Fair Athletics score to make them a bit hardier and tougher to put down. On the flip side, more decayed zombies might have deteriorated Might or Fists scores, and maybe come with some consequences already taken.

As for headshots, I'm dithering on how to actually work that. Maybe make them have to tag a maneuver, or spend a fate point if they're in a hurry to invoke their "Removing the Head or Destroying the Brain" aspect. Or maybe make it happen whenever they roll a natural +4.

Or both, to allow for people to either aim (spend an action navel gazing, but not attacking first), take advantage of a Moderate or higher consequence (cripple it to stop it from moving, the head's an easier target to bash in), or just plain getting a lucky shot (either the rare +4 on the roll, or spending a fate point to make the luck happen). In any case, I don't want it to be something as easy as making a free-action declaration and tagging that.

How's this look:

Romero Style Zombie

High Concept: Shambling Flesh Eating Corpse
Other Aspects: Driven By Hunger; "Removing the Head or Destroying the Brain"; Slow but Steady; Just One Part of the Shambling Horde
Skills:
Great (+4): Might
Good (+3): Fists
Fair (+2): Alertness,
Average (+1): Athletics
Stunts:
Powers:
Living Dead [-1]
Claws [-3] (Venomous, biting)

Total Refresh Cost:
-4
Stress:
Mental OO
Physical OO
Social OO

Notes: The classic shambling zombie is slow to move, and on the surface looks fragile, but as a being driven solely by hunger, simple things like wounds and lost limbs aren't going to make it stop, so they should take every consequence before being Taken Out--and should get back up again anyway unless someone puts a bullet through its brain. While one zombie may seem easy to deal with, they've got a Weapon:2 venomous bite, Great (+4) death grip (har har) for grappling, and where there's one zombie, there's almost always more--especially since any characters Taken Out by a zombie bite will rise soon after to join their ranks. Use the time it takes them to shamble into range to put them down, or at least blow enough bits off them to make good your escape.

<Billy> The stat block represents the 'average' zombie. A fresher, meatier zombie might have a Fair (+2) Athletics score, Average (+1) Endurance, and one or both of No Pain, No Gain and Tough Stuff, making them tougher to put down for the count. Likewise, a more decayed zombie's stats might be a point or two lower all around, and may have already taken consequences.
<Harry> What, no "Braaaaaaains" aspect?

[UmbraLux]

So, how are people planning to get 10 stress/no stress? GM fiat? A custom power?

How about negative Endurance?  Which also explains why they're so slow...

Could also go with a Toughness modifier or rebate power.  Something like the following perhaps:
 [+2]  No Resiliency  This character has no physical resiliency and cannot recover easily from exertion or stress.  The physical stress track is set to zero.