A Ward Question

[JediDresden]

Wards being thaumaturgy seem like they would be made and maintained off camera or out of the main story.  My wizard's home got trashed when the bad guys came for a visit last game session. I had not put any thought into wards for his house so I kind of got caught with my pants down so to speak.

So what kind of wards could my wizard have with a +5 Lore and Discipline, +4 conviction.  Earth (+1 power), Air, and Water are his elements.  Sorry I am away from my books now, so this is all memory.  I have not ever had to make wards before so this is all new too me.  Could someone walk me through the process please?

From the books I get the idea that Harry has some pretty powerful ones and he has to recast them or repower them so I need help with some ideas. Please help?!

[Vargo Teras]

Wards being thaumaturgy, your evocation elements don't really enter into it, except as flavor for whatever traps you might set into them.  The book assumption is that a wizard should have wards equal to the highest of his Conviction, Discipline, and Lore if he hasn't taken any effort to boost them.

[UmbraLux]

As GM, I default to all wizards having a simple ward equal to their Lore in any long term residence.  Most do want to create something better and doing isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.  One thing you'll want to discuss with your group is how many shifts are reasonable.  Or, if working the other way, start setting up aspects until you run out of ideas then work with your GM on rolling them.

While you can use your favored elements for flavor, your Thaumaturgy specialties will affect the ward far more than Evocation.  Skipping shifts and setup, here's an example I used for an NPC Necromancer, the ward totaled 28 shifts.  Breakdown follows:

• Duration of a mortal lifetime, 12 shifts
• Basic barrier / suppression effect rating / power 4, 4 shifts
• Enervating Drain (persistent block against movement), 12 shifts consisting of:
  • Trigger (entering uninvited), 2 shifts
  • Three zones (hall & entry, living room, stairs), 6 shifts
  • Persistent movement block rating 2, 4 shifts

While it's not in the book, I did limit any single power rated result of the ward (barrier & drain) to a number of shifts equal to the necromancer's Lore - four in this case.

[JediDresden]

So OK then I should have at least +5 wards, but how do I boost them mechanically. My house got shot up with automatic weapon's fire.  I was thinking of a ward that would protect my property from physical damage, possibly with a evocation landmine.  I just don't understand the mechanics involved.  I can also overlay multiple kinds on my property as well right, like to give me a warning when things cross my property line, right?

[JediDresden]

Thanks Umbra, I just cant wrap my mind around it.  That helps a little.

[UmbraLux]

Landmines are something you should be wary of...at least damage causing landmines.  Don't want to break the first law just because some kid ran across your lawn!

You can pretty much create any effect you can imagine within the limits of the number of shifts you can use.  I would base such affects on your specialties though...like enervation for a necromancer.  You could do something similar with gravity as an Earth effect.

You total ward power is going to be equal to your Lore plus two per aspect you can use.  Declarations are the default method of creating tag-able aspects.  If you can talk your group into assisting, you may also be able to use maneuvers.  You can, of course, also spend fate or take consequences. 

Unless you recast often, duration will probably be your largest single expenditure of shifts.  After that you'll want the basic barrier / suppression, any keys (for pets or guests), and then any special affects / landmines and their triggers.

[JediDresden]

So after re-reading the section on wards, it makes it sound like they repel the magical energies back at the caster, what about physical energies.  If a guy runs full tilt into the ward would he take damage from the kinetic force? and what about gunfire?  Would the bullets be repelled back at the shooters?  If so is that a 1st law violation?  Or do wards just work against magics?

[UmbraLux]

So after re-reading the section on wards, it makes it sound like they repel the magical energies back at the caster, what about physical energies.  If a guy runs full tilt into the ward would he take damage from the kinetic force?

Don't know that he'd take significant damage (probably no more than if he fell while running) but he would be propelled backwards at essentially the same speed he hit the ward.  (YS276, right column, first paragraph)

and what about gunfire?  Would the bullets be repelled back at the shooters?  If so is that a 1st law violation?  Or do wards just work against magics?

Don't see anything explicit about weapon use but, given the text on walking into one, I'd say they're propelled backwards at Weapon value but unaimed.  Just as dangerous (and very similar to) a ricochet. 

Law violations are going to depend on group. 

Edit:  Personally, I'd say no law violation in this case...the shooter introduced deadly force not the caster.

[Todjaeger]

While you can use your favored elements for flavor, your Thaumaturgy specialties will affect the ward far more than Evocation.  Skipping shifts and setup, here's an example I used for an NPC Necromancer, the ward totaled 28 shifts.  Breakdown follows:

• Duration of a mortal lifetime, 12 shifts
• Basic barrier / suppression effect rating / power 4, 4 shifts

• Enervating Drain (persistent block against movement), 12 shifts consisting of:
  • Trigger (entering uninvited), 2 shifts
  • Three zones (hall & entry, living room, stairs), 6 shifts
  • Persistent movement block rating 2, 4 shifts

While it's not in the book, I did limit any single power rated result of the ward (barrier & drain) to a number of shifts equal to the necromancer's Lore - four in this case.

Note the bolded section.  I haven't come across anywhere within the RAW or the novels to support something which would cause difficulty moving once someone was within a Ward, which is how I'm interpreting the Persistent movement block is meant to function.  A Ward as I understand it is supposed to be a barrier, once the barrier is breached or penetrated...  Similarly, while the idea of additional shifts due to a Warded area having multiple zones is interesting, I haven't come across anything about that in the RAW, in fact YS277 specifically mentions that

Wards don’t have a “scale” concern, the way that veils do, and they cannot move.

therefore I would treat adding shifts of Complexity to a Ward because the Warded area has multiple zone a "house rule".  Also keep in mind that Harry's basement apartment had 3-4 zones in it.  There was the kitchenette/living room area with fireplace, the bedroom, the bathroom & shower (which might have been part of the bedroom), and lastly Harry's lab in the sub-basement.  Given that a Ward is intended to protect a practioner's home, I would expect that all such Wards would provide a barrier to multiple zones, since anything except a studio apartment is going to have at least three different rooms, and even a studio apartment will have two.

You total ward power is going to be equal to your Lore plus two per aspect you can use.  Declarations are the default method of creating tag-able aspects.  If you can talk your group into assisting, you may also be able to use maneuvers.  You can, of course, also spend fate or take consequences.

Is there an area of Thaumaturgy which you're basing this off of, if so, where?  The only relationship I'm aware of between Lore and the casting of a Ward is in determining how many shifts of Complexity the caster can manage 'off the cuff' without needing to spend time in preparation.  Similarly, the only relevance I'm aware of with Aspects is that a caster can use their appropriate Aspects by spending Fate points to reduce the prep time for the spell.  An example of this would be to cast a Ward with Complexity 16 (like the one I list below...) by a Hedge Wizard with Lore: Fair (+2) would leave 14 shifts of Complexity that the Hedge Wizard needs to make up, before casting can even begin.  Now if the Hedge Wizard had seven relevant Aspects and enough Fate points to spend on activating all of them, he'd have reached the required 16 to match the Complexity of the spell and could start in casting immediately.

So after re-reading the section on wards, it makes it sound like they repel the magical energies back at the caster, what about physical energies.  If a guy runs full tilt into the ward would he take damage from the kinetic force? and what about gunfire?  Would the bullets be repelled back at the shooters?  If so is that a 1st law violation?  Or do wards just work against magics?

While the RAW might suggest that Wards provide a physical as well as magical barrier, the novels and short stories suggest otherwise.

In the short story Day Off, something was thrown through one of Harry's windows.  In Ghost Story, bullets were fired into/through the windows and walls of someone's house that had a Ward.

The spell below if from the campaign I'm running set in New Haven, CT.

Eric Holt's Cabin Ward*
This is the Ward around caretaker Eric Holt's cabin at BSA Camp Mattabessitt in Bethany, CT.
Type:
Thaumaturgy, Wards
Complexity:
16
Duration:
One month (+4 Complexity)
Effect:
An 8-shift Block on entry into the cabin (+8 Complexity)
Notes:
Wardflames provide warning to those within the cabin if supernatural entities or beings approach within 100 yards of the cabin. (+2 Complexity)
Additionally, the key to the lock in the cabin door is a symbolic link, alerting Eric if something comes into contact with the Ward while he's away from his cabin. (+2 Complexity)

This was something put together by a Hedge Wizard who at the time had Conviction: Good (+3), Discipline: Good (+3) and Lore: Fair (+2).  The time estimate was that casting the spell itself took about 4 hours with a similar amount of time spent in preparation for casting.  Given the duration, the spell needs to be renewed monthly.

A few things to consider with Wards.  You want the basic Block to be fairly high.  If it's not then it would be relatively easy for a magical opponent to breach or collapse the Ward.  If a Ward only has a Great (+4) strength basic Block, then any Discipline roll of Great (+4) or higher will get through and either allow the Ward or the people inside to be targeted.  YS276 even mentions...

The base complexity of a ward is directly related to its desired strength, so you should aim for this to be pretty high: 8 shifts (Legendary) is a pretty good target to shoot for if you’re moderately good. This represents the ward’s capacity for reflecting attacks.

On average, two Evocation attacks from a caster with Conviction and Discipline of Great (+4) would collapse a Ward with a basic Block strength of only Great (+4).  The first attack, rolling a net of +0 added to Discipline would match the strength of the Block, leaving the 4 shifts of power from Conviction to reduce the strength of Block down to Mediocre (+0), which leaves the Ward so weak that the second attack can't miss even if the roll was a net -4, and there would still be 4 shifts of power to bring the Ward to -4 at which point it dissipates.

-Cheers

[Tedronai]

Note the bolded section.  I haven't come across anywhere within the RAW or the novels to support something which would cause difficulty moving once someone was within a Ward, which is how I'm interpreting the Persistent movement block is meant to function.  A Ward as I understand it is supposed to be a barrier, once the barrier is breached or penetrated...  Similarly, while the idea of additional shifts due to a Warded area having multiple zones is interesting, I haven't come across anything about that in the RAW, in fact YS277 specifically mentions that

therefore I would treat adding shifts of Complexity to a Ward because the Warded area has multiple zone a "house rule".  Also keep in mind that Harry's basement apartment had 3-4 zones in it.  There was the kitchenette/living room area with fireplace, the bedroom, the bathroom & shower (which might have been part of the bedroom), and lastly Harry's lab in the sub-basement.  Given that a Ward is intended to protect a practioner's home, I would expect that all such Wards would provide a barrier to multiple zones, since anything except a studio apartment is going to have at least three different rooms, and even a studio apartment will have two.

I believe that bolded section to be representative of a 'landmine', not the primary ward itself.  I believe this distinction addresses most or all of the above concerns.

[UmbraLux]

Note the bolded section.  I haven't come across anywhere within the RAW or the novels to support something which would cause difficulty moving once someone was within a Ward, which is how I'm interpreting the Persistent movement block is meant to function. 

Tedronai is correct.  See YS276 right column second paragraph and YS277 left column fourth paragraph.  It's simply a "landmine" set up as a movement block instead of an attack.

A Ward as I understand it is supposed to be a barrier, once the barrier is breached or penetrated...  Similarly, while the idea of additional shifts due to a Warded area having multiple zones is interesting, I haven't come across anything about that in the RAW, in fact YS277 specifically mentions that

therefore I would treat adding shifts of Complexity to a Ward because the Warded area has multiple zone a "house rule".  Also keep in mind that Harry's basement apartment had 3-4 zones in it.  There was the kitchenette/living room area with fireplace, the bedroom, the bathroom & shower (which might have been part of the bedroom), and lastly Harry's lab in the sub-basement.  Given that a Ward is intended to protect a practioner's home, I would expect that all such Wards would provide a barrier to multiple zones, since anything except a studio apartment is going to have at least three different rooms, and even a studio apartment will have two.

Not sure I'm understanding but, it was the landmine which paid for multiple zones, not the ward itself.  (If I have misunderstood your point please correct me.)

Is there an area of Thaumaturgy which you're basing this off of, if so, where?  The only relationship I'm aware of between Lore and the casting of a Ward is in determining how many shifts of Complexity the caster can manage 'off the cuff' without needing to spend time in preparation.  Similarly, the only relevance I'm aware of with Aspects is that a caster can use their appropriate Aspects by spending Fate points to reduce the prep time for the spell.  An example of this would be to cast a Ward with Complexity 16 (like the one I list below...) by a Hedge Wizard with Lore: Fair (+2) would leave 14 shifts of Complexity that the Hedge Wizard needs to make up, before casting can even begin.  Now if the Hedge Wizard had seven relevant Aspects and enough Fate points to spend on activating all of them, he'd have reached the required 16 to match the Complexity of the spell and could start in casting immediately.

YS262 "How to do it" for the short version ("You must make up the deficit between your Lore and the total complexity of the spell") and YS266-270 "Preparation" and "Ajdudicating Preparation" for the long version.

While the RAW might suggest that Wards provide a physical as well as magical barrier, the novels and short stories suggest otherwise.

In the short story Day Off, something was thrown through one of Harry's windows.  In Ghost Story, bullets were fired into/through the windows and walls of someone's house that had a Ward.

I agree.  Went with the game text when responding above.   

The spell below if from the campaign I'm running set in New Haven, CT.

Eric Holt's Cabin Ward*
This is the Ward around caretaker Eric Holt's cabin at BSA Camp Mattabessitt in Bethany, CT.
Type:
Thaumaturgy, Wards
Complexity:
16
Duration:
One month (+4 Complexity)
Effect:
An 8-shift Block on entry into the cabin (+8 Complexity)
Notes:
Wardflames provide warning to those within the cabin if supernatural entities or beings approach within 100 yards of the cabin. (+2 Complexity)
Additionally, the key to the lock in the cabin door is a symbolic link, alerting Eric if something comes into contact with the Ward while he's away from his cabin. (+2 Complexity)

Looks decent.  I won't use an 8 shift basic ward against the PCs - find it kinda cheesy.  (It's why I limit NPCs to Lore for any given effect.) But there's nothing preventing it in the book.

This was something put together by a Hedge Wizard who at the time had Conviction: Good (+3), Discipline: Good (+3) and Lore: Fair (+2).  The time estimate was that casting the spell itself took about 4 hours with a similar amount of time spent in preparation for casting.  Given the duration, the spell needs to be renewed monthly.

A few things to consider with Wards.  You want the basic Block to be fairly high.  If it's not then it would be relatively easy for a magical opponent to breach or collapse the Ward.  If a Ward only has a Great (+4) strength basic Block, then any Discipline roll of Great (+4) or higher will get through and either allow the Ward or the people inside to be targeted.  YS276 even mentions...

Yep!  Temporarily at least...and with the attack reduced by the power of the ward.  Taking the ward down permanently means beating the entire ward by 4+.

On average, two Evocation attacks from a caster with Conviction and Discipline of Great (+4) would collapse a Ward with a basic Block strength of only Great (+4).  The first attack, rolling a net of +0 added to Discipline would match the strength of the Block, leaving the 4 shifts of power from Conviction to reduce the strength of Block down to Mediocre (+0), which leaves the Ward so weak that the second attack can't miss even if the roll was a net -4, and there would still be 4 shifts of power to bring the Ward to -4 at which point it dissipates.

Per YS276, shifts are reduced by the block and you can either use excess shifts against a target inside or against the ward itself.  The ward, not the block.  So it will take a bit more than two attacks to take the entire ward down.

[JediDresden]

So if I don't want my place shot up again - can I do a landmine type addition to a ward to stop the bullets.  Flavoring it with my elements - i know not needed, but makes sense - as an earth mage I was picturing the bullets pulled by gravity to the ground before they hit my house, and unwanted visitors stopped in their tracks because they are suddenly held in place by a sudden influx on gravity - not smashed, but held - like a gravity cage.  Both could be written up as evocation spells, so could they be tacked onto a ward as a landmine?  It sounds like they could be.

[UmbraLux]

Yep.  Landmines are part of (inside) the ward and need to be cast as a single thaumaturgy spell.  They're also based on evocation and need to pay for coverage by zone.  So your total shifts can add up quickly.

[Vargo Teras]

Looks decent.  I won't use an 8 shift basic ward against the PCs - find it kinda cheesy.  (It's why I limit NPCs to Lore for any given effect.) But there's nothing preventing it in the book.

While it's formidable to swift entry, it should be the sort of thing that can be taken down pretty quickly through thaumaturgy.  A Feet-in-the-Water thaumaturge can probably dismantle it in five exchanges, with a spell that costs no more than two of a declaration, an invocation of an aspect, or a mild mental consequence.  It's a barrier, but hardly insurmountable.

[UmbraLux]

I agree with almost everything you said Vargo.  However, I generally put thaumaturgy exchanges at minutes or even hours per exchange.  Unless we're talking thaumaturgy at evocation speeds at least. 

So it's significant if thinking in combat terms.