Magic and Technology

[Slife]

Thus encircling the engine, I assume.  But, the wires, tubes, mounts and things would stick out from the engine to the rest of the car, thus breaking the circle.

Not if the circle was made out of car parts. 


A quote from jim about circles here.

[Soulless Mystic5523]

Not if the circle was made out of car parts. 


A quote from jim about circles here.

So just get a couple of extra bumpers to attach to the doors to make a full circle of bumpers. And it would be extra safe if someone tries to run Harry off the road.

[Simon Hogwood]

An interesting idea, but it begs the question of just how circular a circle needs to be - on one hand, you have a perfectly uniform circle (which is probably impossible to make outside an equation); on the other, a nonuniform shape - picture a rope with the ends tied together and thrown into a random but non-overlapping shape. Now, how far from the former to the latter can you go without the circle failing?

Did that make any sense?

[Samldanach]

Hmm.  Well, it certainly needs to be a simple, closed figure, at least in basic outline (though, it could be created from dozens or hundreds of complex, open figures, e.g. glyphs or other writing).  I would also tend to think that it needs to be smooth.  Corners would create inconsistent concentrations of magic, probably creating weak spots.  The closer to a true circle you get, the stronger it would be (similar in principle to most structural engineering problems, in that many stress diagrams are based on true shapes).

So, creating a box around the car would probably work.  You would tend to have issues at the four corners, where the energy would bleed off, possibly with visible effects.  But, for the level of working you're talking about, it should hold together.  (Of course, as cybrgrl pointed out, it still wouldn't actually help.  I don't think there's any way to create a circle that would separate the driver from the engine.)

[Slife]

So, creating a box around the car would probably work.  You would tend to have issues at the four corners, where the energy would bleed off, possibly with visible effects.  But, for the level of working you're talking about, it should hold together.  (Of course, as cybrgrl pointed out, it still wouldn't actually help.  I don't think there's any way to create a circle that would separate the driver from the engine.)

Make a circle around the driver's seat.

[Rel Fexive]

That would only work if you kept your hands inside the circle, wouldn't it?  Reaching for the steering wheel would break it, either by your hands crossing the line or the wheel doing it.

Maybe what is needed is a bleed-off... like those static strips that used to be attached to the backs of cars.  But instead of grounding the car for static, it connects to a strap around the wizard's waist and and grounds him for magic.

While leaving an almighty trail of energy to follow, of course....

[hollow49]

Actually, from what we've seen in the books, "grounding" a wizard's power is prone to make things even worse technology-wise.

(click to show/hide)

(There's one scene in WN that comes to mind...)

When the wizard releases the power without shaping it, either in an emotional surge, as overspill from an existing spell or by releasing excess energy, it seems more prone to cause malfunctions a la Murphy's Law. Grounding the power as it builds would only lead to a constant chance of failure (lower rate of risk than releasing a larger amaount, but spread over longer time it evens out). The opposite strategy, namely deliberately concentrating on holding the magic in (like on Larry Fowler) seems to work best, but requires serious control and calm.

[Rel Fexive]

That's true... but if you drove fast enough, or had a long enough 'grounder', it might all be going wrong to someone else behind you somewhere

More seriously, yes, good point

[Slife]

That would only work if you kept your hands inside the circle, wouldn't it?  Reaching for the steering wheel would break it, either by your hands crossing the line or the wheel doing it.

Again, if the circle was made of car parts the steering wheel wouldn't interfere.

[Samldanach]

Again, if the circle was made of car parts the steering wheel wouldn't interfere.

But, the steering wheel would be inside the circle.  So would the drive train under the car.  So, the car itself can't be insulated from the mage through the use of a circle.

Hmm, taking the "static strip" idea, what if you bled the excess energy into a special container, rather than out into the environment.  Kind of like Harry's ring that stores up kinetic energy.  There would be no way to make it perfectly efficient, but you might be able to significantly lessen the effects.  And, as a bonus, you're charging up a magical battery for later!

[Rel Fexive]

Hmm, taking the "static strip" idea, what if you bled the excess energy into a special container, rather than out into the environment.  Kind of like Harry's ring that stores up kinetic energy.  There would be no way to make it perfectly efficient, but you might be able to significantly lessen the effects.  And, as a bonus, you're charging up a magical battery for later!

I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier today!  Just make sure it's away from all the important stuff.  And again, I'd imagine such a 'battery' could attract unwanted attention.

[Slife]

But, the steering wheel would be inside the circle.  So would the drive train under the car.  So, the car itself can't be insulated from the mage through the use of a circle.

But it's a steering wheel.  What could go wrong with it?  Dresden doesn't have problems with his shoes, does he?

And I assume the drive shaft would be outside of the bottom of the circle.

[Soulless Mystic5523]

But it's a steering wheel.  What could go wrong with it?  Dresden doesn't have problems with his shoes, does he?

And I assume the drive shaft would be outside of the bottom of the circle.

But that begs the question; how far up, and how far down do circles go?

[Simon Hogwood]

But that begs the question; how far up, and how far down do circles go?

See this conversation.

[Samldanach]

But it's a steering wheel.  What could go wrong with it?

As a note, one of the most delicate pieces of equipment in a certain generation of cars was the stick that came out of the side of the steering wheel.  That's because it had been designed to control the headlights, windshield wipers, and often cruise control as well.  Too many little fiddly electronic bits in there.

Even outside of that, the steering column contains the ignition switch (not necessarily a bad thing to have stop working while you're driving, but definitely a bad thing to have working erratically).  In most modern cars, it also contains an air bag (definitely a bad thing to have working erratically).  Basically, the steering column on a car is a little more fiddly than, say, the steering wheel on a go-cart.

OTOH, based on the thread Simon linked to, it would seem that you're right about the drive train.  The circle would only go up and down far enough to enclose the driver.  So, you'd have to worry about the steering column, and a good chunk of the dash, but the rest of the car might be ok.

Ultimately, I think this is one of those cases where, even Bob would suggest actual experimentation over theorizing.  We're treading on some hazy lines of magical theory, and it's hard to really say where they'd fall.

Personally, though, if I were GM, I'd disallow using a circle to protect the car from the driver.  That's just the side I come down on.