White Court Vampire - The Omnivore and The Catch (Hope, Love & Courage)

[devonapple]

I would make the omnivorous WCVs pay the premium only once: on the Incite Emotion power. That has the added benefit of sort of somehow maybe balancing out anyone's issues with keeping the Catch at +0.

[Richard_Chilton]

I could be wrong here, but wasn't there something in one of books (I'm thinking Proven Guilty) that implied all White Court start with lust and that some twist themselves until they are able to feed off of other emotions? I don't have the book handy, but it would be when Thomas is explaining things to Harry (who had no idea that White Court vampires could feed off of anything except sex).

Richard

[UmbraLux]

I would make the omnivorous WCVs pay the premium only once: on the Incite Emotion power. That has the added benefit of sort of somehow maybe balancing out anyone's issues with keeping the Catch at +0.

Don't you think that's too cheap?  I'd think almost anyone contemplating a WCV character would pick up multiple emotions very quickly.  After all, there's a lot of flexibility in being able to manipulate different emotions.

[Becq]

Don't you think that's too cheap?  I'd think almost anyone contemplating a WCV character would pick up multiple emotions very quickly.  After all, there's a lot of flexibility in being able to manipulate different emotions.

I tend to agree with devonapple, though I wanted to see what others thought (thus the question).  Consider that the difference between a baseline WCV and an 'omnivore' WCV would only be flexibility as to the names given aspects or consequences inflicted.  No increase in actual effectiveness (in terms of range or strength), though there might well be cases in which inflicting fear-based aspects might attact less attention than lust-based ones, and vice-versa.  There is a slight disadvantage in that an omnivore might need to be good at both Intimidation and Deceit to be effective.

But all of this is already covered by the Incite Emotion rules and costs; you pay -2 refresh to turn single-emotion Incite into omni-Incite.  So the only real difference between a fully omniverous WCV and a single-appetite WCV with omni-Incite is the ability to say "and I benefit from that guy I just killed" after attacking with the Incite of choice -- and in return there is a slight extra weakness added to the Catch.  And I'm not sure that amount of difference is worth an another extra -2 refresh over the Incite costs.

[devonapple]

Don't you think that's too cheap?  I'd think almost anyone contemplating a WCV character would pick up multiple emotions very quickly.  After all, there's a lot of flexibility in being able to manipulate different emotions.

It already costs refresh to be able to Incite the new emotion. This is how the example omnivore, Madrigal Raith (OS 214), is written up.

And as a player, I'd be inclined to beef up the Incite Emotion power in other ways (range, effectiveness) before adding new Emotion options.

[UmbraLux]

Perhaps I misunderstood, you're not advocating paying only 1 point of refresh for multiple emotions?  Apologies if I've misunderstood, but that's how I read your post...ignoring the "Additional Emotion" power.

[Becq]

I could easily be wrong, but I read devonapple's opinion as what I called option (a) above.  That is, you pay -1 refresh per additional emotion to upgrade your existing Incite Emotion power, and as a (free) side effect you can use Emotional Vampire with the same additional emotions.  This would "upgrade" your Catch and would make make your Feeding Frenzy effect from Emotional Vampire more "flexible", as well.

I see this as optional (that is, you could decide to be able to Incite the additional emotions but keep your Emotional Vampire and Catch at the baseline).

[UmbraLux]

Ah, I did misunderstand in that case.  I do agree with you on not needing to buy "Emotional Vampire" multiple times.

[Richard_Chilton]

Here's a bit from Proven Guilty - one that talks about a Raith feeding on Fear:

My half brother smiled and worked the action of the shotgun again. “I doubt my
father cares,” he replied. “He wouldn’t mind losing a nephew. Particularly not one
who has been consorting with scum like House Malvora.”
...
“A phobophage,” I said quietly. “He feeds on fear the way you feed on lust.”
Thomas’s expression turned a bit nauseated. “Yes. A lot of the Malvora do.”
Madrigal’s pale, strained face twisted into a vicious smile. “You should try it
some night, coz.”
“It’s sick, Mad,” Thomas said. There was an almost ghostly sense of sadness or
pity in his tone, so subtle that I would not have seen it before living with him.
...

“The difference is that once you’ve started, you can’t let them go running off to
report you to the authorities,” Thomas said. “You keep them until they’re dead.”

Richard

[devonapple]

Other folks have echoed what I had intended to connote, so all is well!

[sinker]

I'm not sure that's proof for all WCVs starting on lust, Richard. It certainly says that the Raith look down on the Malvora, and that Thomas personally finds the practice wrong (no specificity as to whether he dislikes Madrigal specifically doing it or the Malvora as a whole), but it's a bit of a jump to all white court vampires feed initially on lust.

[Richard_Chilton]

Here's a bit to back it up:
Until Proven Guilty, several books into the war against the Vampires, Harry didn't know that some White Court vampires feed on Fear - or anything other than Lust.  Which seems to imply that no one talking to Harry (during the time that Harry is helping to train the Baby Wardens) mentioned anything about how some White Court feed on anything except lust.

Which makes me think it's either rare for one of them to feed on anything except lust - implying that fear and despair might be acquired tastes.


As for multiple emotions - I could be wrong here (that book isn't handy) but in White Night, didn't Madrigal feed on lust (or did another vampire trigger Molly's orgasmic flashback)? Which does open the door to beings feeding on more than one emotion.

Richard

[Tedronai]

Here's a bit to back it up:
Until Proven Guilty, several books into the war against the Vampires, Harry didn't know that some White Court vampires feed on Fear - or anything other than Lust.  Which seems to imply that no one talking to Harry (during the time that Harry is helping to train the Baby Wardens) mentioned anything about how some White Court feed on anything except lust.

Which makes me think it's either rare for one of them to feed on anything except lust - implying that fear and despair might be acquired tastes.


As for multiple emotions - I could be wrong here (that book isn't handy) but in White Night, didn't Madrigal feed on lust (or did another vampire trigger Molly's orgasmic flashback)? Which does open the door to beings feeding on more than one emotion.

Richard

Harry is an eminently fallible narrator.
The list of 'facts' he's gotten wrong through the books truly would be impressive.

With regards to this one, Raith is the most prominent of the three major Houses of the White Court, and though the 'major houses' bit implies the existence of other houses, not even the WC characters have mentioned them in any way, nor were they seemingly present during the ghoul incursion incident (or at least not recognized as present by our narrator).
Being the most prominent House, and moreover the one most active locally, Raith draws more attention and gives Harry less excuse to be ignorant of their workings, not that the comparative absence of excuses prevents Harry from being largely ignorant anyway until his brother lets him in on family secrets.

[Richard_Chilton]

Harry is an eminently fallible narrator.
The list of 'facts' he's gotten wrong through the books truly would be impressive.

Yet in game terms he starts the first book with Great Lore - implying that any PC with Great Lore should have a similar batting average.

Just something to think about.

Richard

[Sanctaphrax]

Good Lore, actually.

Regardless, I don't think it's a good idea to take the novels too seriously as a gaming resource.