Thaumaturgy, Aspects, and free tags...

[computerking]

If a wizard were to use Thaumaturgy to place an Aspect on himself like a Maneuver, but gives it a longer duration than normal (say for example, "Stronger than he Looks" with extra successes to make it last a few days), is the player allowed to use the Aspect for free only once? Or once per Scene?

[wyvern]

Only once, though it would not be unreasonable to add extra "free" uses at the cost of three shifts per each.

This is actually the basis I use for most "simple" shapeshifting spells: you grant yourself a free tag on each of "I'm a bear", "faster than you'd think", "keen scent", and "ursine might", at a total of 12 shifts + whatever for duration.  (I typically default to a duration of "a scene", or ~15 minutes if I need to pick an interval off the time chart.)

Note also that any such aspects are open to compels...

[devonapple]

Wyvern has it right. The RAW explicitly encourages Fate-point-strapped Wizards to "buy" extra copies of a Maneuver in their Thaumaturgy spells, so they can tag it multiple times for free.

[Sanctaphrax]

Bear in mind that the tags might not last as long as the aspects. Most tags need to be used immediately (see YS 106).

PS: I can't take "I'm a bear" aspects seriously. The bearomancer and his post-its ruined them for me.

[wyvern]

You're welcome!  ^.^

(Note to self: make an ursine form for Johann.  Then find a way to have a fight scene happen in a post-it note factory.)

[sinker]

Bear in mind that the tags might not last as long as the aspects. Most tags need to be used immediately (see YS 106).

I'm a little more likely to cut a wizard some slack on this because technically if you don't this becomes a completely pointless spell. Technically YS 106 says that an aspect must be tagged in the scene that it was established. Since it is established during the ritual (Which is usually considered a scene on it's own) then there are only very rare circumstances during which this would work.

[computerking]

OK, here's where I get a little confused. How kosher is it to transform yourself into something via Magical Maneuver? Do you have to overcome the target's Consequences as you have to for a full Miomancy transformation? And if so, how do you represent the flimsy nature of the change? (I say flimsy because a Counterspell of 3-4 successes will banish it, or some sort of thaumaturgic reversal, like putting a counter-Aspect of "No, I'm not really a bear" on you)

[Becq]

Well, you'd only get one free tag against the aspect, and would have to pay Fate for any additional benefit from it.  So "Biomantically-Enhanced Strength" would be (almost) as good as Inhuman Strength ... briefly (ie, one hit).  Then it would revert to being the equivalent of a character with a strength-related aspect for the remainder of the spell's duration.

As for other forms of transformations (actual transformations, not illusory), such as to a bear ... I'm not sure.  It has been said that this sort of spell requires the target (in this case you) to be "taken out", though this has never made much sense to me.  At the very least, though, consider that a maneuver-based version of a bear transformation would only cover the physical shape/appearance and an aspect (with one free tag) that allows for bonuses to rolls in which bearness would be a benefit.  It would not include claws, strength, or survival abilities that a true bear form would have (except as represented by invoking the aspect).

[UmbraLux]

OK, here's where I get a little confused. How kosher is it to transform yourself into something via Magical Maneuver?

Transformations are pretty explicitly "take out" results. (YS282:  "Anything that is fully transformative must be powerful enough to achieve a 'taken out' result on the target...")  So I suspect most groups won't let a standard maneuver be invoked or compelled for a transformation. 

That said, a maneuver which beats the target's stress track may qualify for a concession / voluntary transformation with some groups.  I prefer to keep it a bit more difficult.  Thinking off the top of my head, I might allow a maneuver => stress + power => stress + concession to affect transformation into normal animals.  Not sure though...might depend on how well it was argued for.

[Sanctaphrax]

OK, here's where I get a little confused. How kosher is it to transform yourself into something via Magical Maneuver?

This is not a question with a right answer. Mechanically speaking, it`s fine to become a bear with a single maneuver. But if that seems too easy to you, nobody says you have to allow it.

[devonapple]

The ultimate currency in FATE is plot impact.

People sacrifice Refresh (potential free Fate Points) in order to gain a consistent, pre-established means of impacting the plot, such as Spell Use, Claws, Toughness, or Speed. As such, it is easy to rationalize that when Shapechanging, your ultimate goal should be to actually *get* the powers which make sense for that form.

But Aspects and Fate Points are still mechanisms of plot impact, and if you are able to negotiate with your table that a Shapechange spell nets you a bunch of taggable Aspects, and not just a suite of Inhuman Abilities, with the understanding that those can be tagged for certain benefits and plot impact, then great.

And if you really just need to have the Inhuman Abilities, then there is a mechanism for it!

[UmbraLux]

Mechanically speaking, it`s fine to become a bear with a single maneuver.

...unless you're sticking to the rules as written.  I don't have anything against house rules but it's nice to know when we're straying from published text to local modifications.   

Going back to the text, an aspect may well have someone act as a bear and even consider themselves bear-like in some fashion.  Aspects are (or affect) the character's core identity - who they are.  Aspects will guide or limit actions and choices to a degree.  From a meta-game point of view, they're ways to manipulate the narrative by modifying skills and / or choices. 

A complete transformation explicitly requires a take-out.  That said, concessions make this almost as trivial as a maneuver for voluntary transformations.  The difference does matter - consider the potential affects of using maneuvers for involuntary transformation...

[computerking]

Aspects are (or affect) the character's core identity - who they are.  Aspects will guide or limit actions and choices to a degree.  From a meta-game point of view, they're ways to manipulate the narrative by modifying skills and / or choices. 

That sounds interesting.... Hmm, could a Spirit-based Mental maneuver place an aspect on a target without Lawbreaking? If so, "I'm A Bear" could be a great Spell to make someone act like a bear.

[UmbraLux]

That sounds interesting.... Hmm, could a Spirit-based Mental maneuver place an aspect on a target without Lawbreaking? If so, "I'm A Bear" could be a great Spell to make someone act like a bear.

Yes, does open some potential ideas.  It may be worth noting that it takes at least seven aspects to describe a character's identity...so there'd be room for interaction.  As for lawbreaking...I'll avoid derailing the thread and heading down that rabbit hole.   

[sinker]

A complete transformation explicitly requires a take-out.  That said, concessions make this almost as trivial as a maneuver for voluntary transformations.  The difference does matter - consider the potential affects of using maneuvers for involuntary transformation...

I don't see how concessions effect the situation at all. A concession occurs sometime in between actions, not when a action is unresolved. So if someone attacks you and deals more stress than you can handle, you can't concede instead of taking the stress. You're just taken out at that point. You'd have to concede before the attack or after the attack. Since a transformation spell is essentially a conflict all wrapped up in one event, there is no way for a concession to occur. Either the spell hasn't happened yet (in which case they can't concede because there's nothing to concede to) or the spell is in process (in which case they can't concede because an action is unresolved) or the spell is finished (in which case they can't concede because the conflict is already over).