Author Topic: The One Ring DFRPG Stats  (Read 12259 times)

Offline Becq

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2011, 04:27:11 AM »
While this would likely be a noticeable improvement, I still feel that it would undervalue the unrecoverable stress.
How so?  Under my suggestion, any time the Ring is used there is a test for corruption.  Under yours, there are two tests each time invisibility is used (once for using -3 refresh worth of hunger-linked powers, and once for getting a +1 to the resulting stealth roll).  Is the second test so vital?
[quote author]
Entirely aside from the issues of mandated consequences, how, precisely, does an infuriating insult render the victim subject to the will of the Ringbearer?
[/quote]
An 'infuriating insult' is not a mental attack.  Regardless, my (unstated) assumption was that the general rule that a consequence must be "compatible with the nature of the attack that inflicted the harm" still holds; generally this would require a mental attack intended to force obedience from the victim or some variation on that theme.  Any use of the Domination power would certainly qualify.  Mental magics could certainly be tailored to qualify.  Incite Emotion could probably work.  Calling someone a 'Tard' would probably not inflict mental stress, let alone bind their will to the Ring.

As an example, if Lord of Darkness Bilbo had learned Incite Fear and used it on Elrond with sufficient success, Elrond's player could normally take the serious consequence of "Midgets terrify the ever-lovin' Finwë out of me".  However, Bilbo, using the power of his One Ring over Elrond's Vilya, could dictate that the serious consequence taken be "My will belongs to the One Ring" instead.  If Bilbo then failed to reinforce his dominance, Elrond would eventually recover from the consequence as normal, though if the Dark Lord Bilbo was smart, he'd be sure to beat down Elrond's will from time to time.

@Richard: The 'Up to 18 levels of Refinement' power combined with the 'Corrupting Influence' power will, I think, mean that the master of the ring will get a (non-recoverable?) serious or extreme 'hunger' consequence (at best!) every scene in which he uses the power.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2011, 06:43:59 AM »
I can't believe the 12 Swords just came up in a RPG forum. I'm in love.
Tolkein notwithstanding, they were my first foray into fantasy... and I was under the impression that Saberhagen was... almost unheard of.

I think it's a shame that some of the greatest writers in the genre have been forgotten.  Saberhagen, Zelazny, Vance, and Moorcock are names that all gamers should know.

Also, I'm pretty sure I could stat MOST of the 12. They'd be game-breaking, but so is a lot of stuff.

Statting the Swords...

The problem with that is that there were no non-Sword defenses against most of the Swords.  Nothing could tie or beat them.  There was no defense against Farslayer, there was no attack that Doomgiver couldn't turn back, etc.  Spend a century building a ward? That's no defense.  Did Mab annoy you? Use Farslayer to take her out and she dies - one attack and she's dead.

I can't see see a way to stat a "this attack will kill Mab, or the Winter Mother, or Uriel, or whoever you want to kill with it" thing.  Some of the others, sure, but Farslayer, Doomgiver, Townsaver, and Shieldbreaker? They are beyond numbers.


Given that the process of acquiring new powers is essentially outside of the current ruleset, I think a note like this might be a good idea:

"The One Ring serves as justification for its bearer to take a number of refresh worth of powers and stunts equal to his current refresh worth of powers and stunts. This is not optional and may put the character below 0 refresh."

Something like that might work, but The One Ring is a World Breaker...  Something like that should break the rules or make new ones.

Does the Ring's enslaving effect require close proximity?

From what I recall, Sauron has not held the Ring for an Age (the entire Third Age) and he could still command the Nine.  Order them like slaves and they (former Lords and Kings) obeyed Sauron as if they were the least of his slaves.  From that, it seems that once someone masters the Ring they have the slaves until a new master takes it over.

I'm not sure if it allows its master to use mind control over anyone except the other ring bearers, but there's not a lot of history on this... If I recall correctly it was only ever used by Sauron, the guy who took it from him, Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, and (for the briefest time) Samwise.  While unmastered it slowly corrupts those around it, but that's a kind of spiritual thing rather than a mental one.  Put simply, it wants to be used the way Sauron would use it.  It wants to be back on Sauron's hand (since a big part of him is inside it) but if it can get another of the Maiar or an Elf Lord then it's ready to go to town.

Richard

Offline Tedronai

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 07:31:04 AM »
How so?  Under my suggestion, any time the Ring is used there is a test for corruption.  Under yours, there are two tests each time invisibility is used (once for using -3 refresh worth of hunger-linked powers, and once for getting a +1 to the resulting stealth roll).  Is the second test so vital?
Perhaps this was a miscommunication.

The first option you presented would appear to result in only one attack (that for getting a +1 to a roll) with the Feeding Dependency being removed in favour of simply making the Demonic Co-pilot stress unrecoverable.
The second option was, as you put it, 'a cosmetic change'.
The third option offered a minor method by which to mitigate the resulting unrecoverable stress.

While I feel that either of the first or third options would be an improvement, I still feel that they undervalue the detrimental nature of 'unrecoverable' stress, which I would ultimately value far more than any of the current +1 powers, possibly even more than Human Form with Involuntary Change, a combination resulting in a +2 rebate.

Further, there is no 'my version' of this ring, or even of 'corrupting influence'.

An 'infuriating insult' is not a mental attack.
The stunt 'Infuriate' would seem to disagree.  See YS153.

Regardless, my (unstated) assumption was that the general rule that a consequence must be "compatible with the nature of the attack that inflicted the harm" still holds; generally this would require a mental attack intended to force obedience from the victim or some variation on that theme.

That is not in the least bit represented in the text to which I was responding, which seemed to be a direct statement allowing the circumvention of that rule.  I found this problematic.  If that was not meant to be the case, all that it requires is a rewording of the power to prevent similar misunderstandings by others.
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Offline computerking

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 08:42:00 PM »
I think it's a shame that some of the greatest writers in the genre have been forgotten.  Saberhagen, Zelazny, Vance, and Moorcock are names that all gamers should know.

Statting the Swords...

The problem with that is that there were no non-Sword defenses against most of the Swords.  Nothing could tie or beat them.  There was no defense against Farslayer, there was no attack that Doomgiver couldn't turn back, etc.  Spend a century building a ward? That's no defense.  Did Mab annoy you? Use Farslayer to take her out and she dies - one attack and she's dead.

I can't see see a way to stat a "this attack will kill Mab, or the Winter Mother, or Uriel, or whoever you want to kill with it" thing.  Some of the others, sure, but Farslayer, Doomgiver, Townsaver, and Shieldbreaker? They are beyond numbers.

Richard

I'm thinking we need a 12 Swords IoP Creation thread.... or 12 separate threads :)
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2011, 10:48:06 PM »
Nothing should break the rules.

And the creation of new rules should be kept to a minimum.

I seriously don't understand why people are so keen to put powerful stuff outside of the rule system.

Farslayer looks easy enough to stat from where I'm standing. It's a potion that makes a (Lore) shift Thaumaturgy attack against whoever you name. It has All Creatures Are Equal Before God. It ignores the normal rules about invocations boosting potions; the user can take as much FP debt as he likes to give it +2 strength per point.

Said mechanics would create a sword against which there is no defence.

PS: An effect that's absolute or incredibly powerful in one game system might not be so in another. For example, a group of Exalted PCs could kill Mab. Sometimes I think that people's hesitance about adapting powerful effects stems partly from a worry about such situations.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2011, 02:15:20 AM »
Farslayer looks easy enough to stat from where I'm standing. It's a potion that makes a (Lore) shift Thaumaturgy attack against whoever you name. It has All Creatures Are Equal Before God. It ignores the normal rules about invocations boosting potions; the user can take as much FP debt as he likes to give it +2 strength per point.

Hmm, you're right.  Change it to "the user must take as much debt to make it a killing blow, at +2 strength per point" and it works.

Back slightly on topic, I just stumbled over a good fan movie for LotRs.  There's plenty of good sword scenes as Aragorn is set on the Hunt for Gollum.  With the credits it's about 40 minutes long and close to the same quality as the actual movies (which it shameless steals from).  See http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/ for more.

Richard

Offline arthurfallz

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 06:48:30 PM »
I disagree with the build entirely.

For one, the power of the One Ring is fantastic. It's enough to change the course of a war. All of the Great Rings give the bearer of that Ring power, power over a part of Middle Earth. The three Elven Rings were used in The Lord of the Rings with such effect ;

Nenya (the ring Galadriel bore) kept Lothlorien timeless and a paradise of the Elder Days in Middle Earth. There was nothing about the Elves in Lorien that kept the Mallorn trees growing and that sense of timelessness, that ward from the troubles of Middle Earth. Lorien was nestled between the hordes of Goblins in the Misty Mountains, in their fastness in Moria, and Dol Guldur, the former seat of Sauron's power in the Third Age, crawling with Orcs and the Nazgul. But it came at a cost. The Elves of Lorien were so insular, so cut off from their kin, that Legolas had never been there, that they viewed all outsiders with suspicion. They had forgotten the light in other lands, even viewing Fangorn to the south as "perilous" (and Treebeard, later, comments that Lothlorien had diminished, that it was falling even while being timeless).

Vilya, the ring Elrond bore, seemed to be used to keep Imladris secret and safe. It is also possible it gave him the extra wisdom of healing he seemed to posses unlike any other in Middle Earth (like removing a tiny fragment of the Witch King's blade from near Frodo's heart).

Narya, the ring Gandalf bore, seemed capable of stirring hearts, of lighting fires in men's hearts and driving them on to do the unthinkable, kindling courage. It was also the ring of Fire, and Gandalf's spells of fire were the most showy and potent seeming of all the wizard's magic (in the books, Saruman did not hurl fireballs).

Each of the Elven Rings, and all of the other Great Rings, were imbued with the power of command and authority over the races they were made to serve. This was not, as is appropriate with Tolkien, a form of mind control these Rings were meant to achieve. They were symbols of authority, beacons to their people. The Rings were crowns in a physical sense, and in a spiritual sense. The bearer of one of the Nine Rings was a King - they were given to Kings, and Kings would bear them. To the bearer, that Kingliness was bestowed. Elrond was the Chief of his tribe of Elves in Imladris (Rivendell). Seeing something here? The Rings gave an Aspect. An Aspect that no one else could possess without that Ring. Galadriel was the Lady of Light, not because she had Nenya. She and Nenya were the same person, in essence - Nenya belonged on the finger of the Lady of Light, and the Lady of Light was made greater by wearing Nenya.

Each one of these rings could do fantastic things in Middle Earth. They were powerless outside of Middle Earth (from Galadriel's dialogue to Frodo). The One Ring was made by Sauron after he learned the making of Rings from the Elf Smith Celibrimbor (a descendant of no less than Fëanor himself). He sought to control all the Rings that had been made, and perhaps any further Great Rings that existed afterwards (which the Elven Smiths were wise enough not to produce any more of). The Dwarven Rings, the Nine, were all made with the aid of Sauron, while the Three had not been, but by pouring the majority of his spirit into the One Ring, Sauron gave it enough power to act as a Ruling Ring. It would allow him to control the minds of any who bore those Rings. It would remove, in the end, the last few bright hopes for goodness that remained in Middle Earth (the kingdoms of Elves who had seen the light of the Valinor), and Sauron would be uncontested in Middle Earth. The One Ring, unlike all of the other, usurped the chain of partnership between bearer and Ring. It made the bearer of the One Ring the Master, the one who rules without the right to do so. Look how he made it. He stole the secrets through trickery and deception. He made the One Ring without the consent or wishes of any of the other Ring bearers, and he made it by subverting the natural laws of Middle Earth, pouring all his might into it to make it so. Sauron cheated and abused himself and the world to make the One Ring.

On the hand of any mortal, the One Ring would make him or her invisible to human sight, partially drawing them into the spirit world. It gave them small amounts of mastery over others, according to their stature. Frodo was already a wealthy and dignified man by Hobbit standards (he didn't work, he was that rich, and he was noble in spirit in the way Tolkien wrote about noble spirits). Aragorn / Strider, who had the right to claim the throne of Gondor and Arnor, would have been capable of much, much more with the One Ring. Even Boromir was the son of the Steward of Gondor, the Captain of the armies of Gondor - his power of command would have been great. Frodo managed to bind Gollum into service (of the nature of service Gollum could render - treacherous and loathsome), not only because Gollum had been a Ring-bearer, but because Frodo had the power of that command upon him. The Ring does not prolong life - it delays death. It prevents the bearer from gaining more life from the world, from growing and being part of that flow, hence the lack of aging. Long periods of this do awful things to a mortal (see Gollum, who Bilbo clearly didn't even recognize as a Hobbit).

It bestows, as all of the Great Rings do, an Aspect upon the bearer - THE BEARER OF THE ONE RING. And that Aspect can be compelled to the nature of that Aspect. Galadriel has the Aspect, THE BEARER OF NENYA, which the GM could compel to make her assume matters relating to the Elven tribes, to remain staid and constant when change would be wiser. Remember, she suspected Saruman, but did not speak up when matters made him head of the White Council over Gandalf, whom she favoured. When Frodo wants to put on the One Ring in the presence of the Nazgul, the Ring isn't "telling" him to. There's no voice in the Ring. The One Ring tempts the bearer using the bearer's own dark deeds and thoughts. This is why Gollum fell so easily to the Ring, and why Frodo (Frodo being a very, very noble spirit) didn't until the very end.

There's a lot more to it, but there you have it. The One Ring is better served, as are most of the Rings, as plot devices in that context than magical trinkets. They are more "parts of the world smote into Rings" than "bits of magic guided to a purpose".
I reserve the right to change my opinion the moment I am proven wrong; that's called learning.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 11:57:21 PM »
You say that you disagree with the build, but I can't tell why.

The One Ring already demands an aspect, so that's covered.

Are you saying that you don't like the attempt to stat up things like this?

Offline Belial666

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2011, 03:32:37 AM »
Here's my take on the One Ring in the full magnitude of its powers. Yes, it offers no direct power but consider how terrifying it would be to set unbelievable coincidence to your benefit and to slowly corrupt others to the Ring's dominion anywhere in the world. Most of the powers here are merely standard powers with increased ranges or areas or high-level senses.

Quote
THE ONE RING [-1]
Description: A simple gold ring. The Dark Lord Sauron invested it with most of his power, and if he should recover it he will surely conquer Middle Earth. The One Ring is semi-sentient, and those around it are frequently enslaved by its power.
Musts: You must have an aspect related to your possession of this item. This aspect should reflect your relationship to the Ring and the level of control that it has over you. (see below)
Skills Affected: Discipline
Effects:
[-0] Purpose. The One Ring was created to bring dominion over Middle-Earth to the Lord of the Rings. It may be used for any purpose, but its wearer and those around its wearer will often receive compels related to this purpose.
[-0] It Is What It Is. The One Ring is a ring. Pretty ordinary looking, except for the words that appear when it is burned.
[-0] Unbreakable. As an Item of Power, this item cannot be broken except by the fires of Mount Doom.
[+2] One-Time Discount. The One Ring is small and easily concealed but the wearer will be tempted to use its power in obvious ways. In addition, the wearer becomes obvious to creatures related to the Ring when he uses its power.
[+1] Corrupting Influence. The One Ring benefits all actions that serve its purpose as per Demonic Co-Pilot. It opposes actions that do not by arranging coincidence and circumstance as if by Guide My Hand. It is possible (and happens often) that the Ring can set up an unfortunate coincidence where the bearer has to use its power to survive so that the Ring can inflict corruption (mental stress) via Demonic Co-Pilor.
[-0] Unnatural Vitality. The One Ring keeps its bearers alive, no matter how badly the passing of time might wither them. This power is mechanically identical to Wizard's Constitution.
[-2] Cloak of Shadows. The bearer may become invisible as per Greater Veil, though they gain no ability to employ illusions or conjure objects, like with normal Greater Veils.
[-4] One Ring To Rule Them All. The bearer may use Master Domination on any ringbearer or creature directly under any Ring's power. This ability is limited to such creatures alone but its range is unlimited. The bearer of the One Ring only pays refresh for this ability if he has attempted to use it at least once. (Master Domination, limited to ring-affected creatures, range increased to unlimited)
[-3] One Ring To Find Them. The bearer can see all other ringbearers, all worn Rings and all creatures and objects directly affected by any Ring's power, regardless of range or impediments. The bearer of the One Ring only pays refresh for this ability if he has attempted to use it at least once, and the progression is gradual; a beginning user may only pay -1 refresh for seeing bearers and rings clearly if he is directly present, for a -2 a more advanced user could sense them at significant ranges and only a master could wield the full effect.
[-4] One Ring To Bring Them All. Once per scene, the bearer of the One Ring may manipulate a situation as if by Guide My Hand. As per normal, he cannot control the outcome exactly but the arrangement of coincidenceis always favorable to the Ring's purpose. This ability's range is unlimited, meaning scenes the bearer is not in can be manipulated, though only one such scene at a time. The bearer of the One Ring only pays refresh for this ability if he has attempted to use it at least once.
[-4] And in the Darkness Bind Them. Creatures making an evil choice in any scene manipulated by the One Ring benefit from (and are corrupted by) Demonic Co-Pilot. The bearer of the One Ring only pays refresh for this ability if he has attempted to use it at least once.


Quote
The problem with that is that there were no non-Sword defenses against most of the Swords.  Nothing could tie or beat them.  There was no defense against Farslayer, there was no attack that Doomgiver couldn't turn back, etc.  Spend a century building a ward? That's no defense.  Did Mab annoy you? Use Farslayer to take her out and she dies - one attack and she's dead.

Heh. You think Farslayer or Doomgiver would be enough to even mildly annoy Mab? Throw the sword of Vengeance at Mab and she simply teleports to her domain faster than the sword can get there - for the sword still takes a certain amount of time to travel. Then once the sword enters her domain, she slows time indefinitely in the part of her domain it is in and the sword gets stuck. Or she simply keeps teleporting around every so often faster than the sword can follow.
Against Doomgiver, Mab calls in an antarctic storm centered on herself. Doomgiver turning this attack against Mab will have no effect since it is already being cast on Mab (and mab is strengthened by winter anyway.) Then the Doomgiver's wielder kills himself by breathing in a -70 degrees air or kills himself by trying not to breathe; no power is used against the wielder directly so the sword has nothing to reflect.

Offline computerking

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2011, 04:21:25 AM »
Heh. You think Farslayer or Doomgiver would be enough to even mildly annoy Mab? Throw the sword of Vengeance at Mab and she simply teleports to her domain faster than the sword can get there - for the sword still takes a certain amount of time to travel. Then once the sword enters her domain, she slows time indefinitely in the part of her domain it is in and the sword gets stuck. Or she simply keeps teleporting around every so often faster than the sword can follow.
Against Doomgiver, Mab calls in an antarctic storm centered on herself. Doomgiver turning this attack against Mab will have no effect since it is already being cast on Mab (and mab is strengthened by winter anyway.) Then the Doomgiver's wielder kills himself by breathing in a -70 degrees air or kills himself by trying not to breathe; no power is used against the wielder directly so the sword has nothing to reflect.
Just a note, I believe at least one of the Swords took out a god. That's gotta count for something... And you have to know the attack is coming, and with which Sword. A couple of them cloud (or dull) minds to a certain extent, and while Sightblinder is in your left hand, Mab won't fight you, (who look like) Her greatest desire or deepest fear, as you throw Farslayer into her heart at point-blank range with your right.
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Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2011, 07:31:58 AM »
Heh. You think Farslayer or Doomgiver would be enough to even mildly annoy Mab?

Spoilers for the Swords series:
(click to show/hide)

In short, they have plot device level powers.  I'd rate some of them as more powerful that "I just did a Darkhallow so I can bust through Edinburgh's Wards" or that spell the Red Court tried in Mexico.

Richard

Offline Belial666

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2011, 12:56:38 PM »
There are gods and gods.

The gods of the 12 swords' universe are some emotions of humanity that after a few millennia of repetition have taken up physical form as incarnations of an aspect of humanity. They are only as strong as those human ideas are and they are no more intelligent or wise than the part of humanity the echo. The greatest applications of their power can certainly be impressive for pre-industrial humans but are rather small compared to really major natural events.
Mab is a being of the spirit world that is potentially older than humanity, certainly older than most civilizations. She embodies half of the natural balance of the entire planet, with her power able to cause worldwide changes and, if unopposed, destroy the entire human race. Her real form is so awesome that merely looking upon it almost struck one of the most strong-willed mortals on Earth senseless and her real voice is so naturally powerful it can shatter human bodies merely because they hear it, without her making an effort to tone it down. Her presence alone in an area can bring winter in the middle of june.

In short, the gods of the 12 swords universe are not the same order of being as Mab. They are about the same order of being as the Lords of the Outer Night, perhaps even equal to the Red King, each one of them. The being in that series who appears to be close to Mab in power is the Emperor - and he's been shown to have at least some resistance to the power of the swords.

Besides, even if the Swords are capable of killing Mab, the wielder of one of the swords is not curbstomped a dozen times before they can even draw the weapon by Mab just speaking at them, they manage to actually use the sword on her and she dies, there are two potential outcomes. One, the next fey in line takes up the mantle of winter queen and is rather pissed. Two, the entire world is destroyed by fire as killing Mab literally slew Winter.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2011, 02:01:02 PM »
The gods of the 12 swords' universe are some emotions of humanity that after a few millennia of repetition have taken up physical form as incarnations of an aspect of humanity.

I'm going to do something that, well, it's very rare that I can do it now days.  At least for Saberhagen fans - I'm going to recommend a new book.
Ardneh's Sword - the fourth book for Empire of the East series - published 2006 and set generations after the first three.

And that's all I'm going to say.

Enjoy :)

In short, the gods of the 12 swords universe are not the same order of being as Mab. They are about the same order of being as the Lords of the Outer Night, perhaps even equal to the Red King, each one of them. The being in that series who appears to be close to Mab in power is the Emperor - and he's been shown to have at least some resistance to the power of the swords.

The Program of Creation may indeed be partly immune.  Who hasn't suspected that ARDNEH's lunar backup played a role in the Empire's doings? That said, didn't he need Shieldbreaker to approach Soulcutter? Or am I remembering it wrong? (I can recall the Shieldbreaker and Soulcutter combo, but I'm not entirely sure which part of the series it is.)

Besides, even if the Swords are capable of killing Mab, the wielder of one of the swords is not curbstomped a dozen times before they can even draw the weapon by Mab just speaking at them, they manage to actually use the sword on her and she dies, there are two potential outcomes.

And that's what happens when plot devices collide.  Especially between different books.

But here's a counter:
Whenever Jim lists "beings that can take Mab on" he includes Ferrovax.  Note that he also includes the enter White Council, Drakul, and a few others, but Ferrovax is there.  Ah - found it - the post is at http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,11012.msg462610.html#msg462610.

Why is Ferrovax such a big deal? Because he's a greater dragon.  Now he used to have brother, name of Sirothrax, who did various things - but he doesn't have that brother anymore.  Why? Because that brother ran into a sword.  A Sword of the Cross, but a sword just the same.

That's right - a sword with comparability low refresh held by a Knight of the Cross kill the brother of something that could take on Mab.  If a Sword of the Cross could do that, then why wouldn't a Sword be able to take on Mab?

But statting them out is a bit like statting the One Ring (see? I got back on topic).  A plot device is a plot device.  Giving a plot device stats is meaningless.  It's like trying to work out the shifts needed to do the spell the Red Court tried.  Weeks of prep time at the center of ley lines with dozens (if not hundreds) of human sacrifices - how many shifts would that be? If you call that number X you'll see that it's the same number of shifts needed by a spell to kill Mab (there's some speculation that Donar Vadderung is part of Dresden's family tree and was the real target) and the same number of shifts that One Ring could produce.

For X = the amount that plot requires.

Richard

Offline computerking

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2011, 04:44:29 PM »
I'm in agreement with both Belial and Richard, bearing in mind the X=Plot equasion Richard mentioned. The Swords, and the One Ring, do deserve to be Plot Device level items, but only when being used in a Plot level manner, and for Plot level reasons. Use a Sword against Mab? Sure, and if there's a significant enough Plot related reason for it to happen, I would understand it actually killing her. Of course, Maeve would rise to power at that point, since Mab's not a Mother, and therefore is only one part of the Winter line.

But just arbitrarily wandering into Arctis Tor and challenging Mab to a duel because you happen to have Shieldbreaker, she'll walk up to you unarmed and pluck that Sword from your hands, no magic, just hand-to-hand.

These types of Items are clearly meant to be powerful, but they don't need to be All-powerful unless the Plot makes that necessary. Think of all the years Gollum was warped by the One Ring. During those times, it probably didn't flex any of its muscles except those to keep Gollum alive and warp him into a useful form. I can't ever imagine good o' Smeagol playing King and wielding power over other rings with it, because that's not what the Plot needed during that time.

tl;dr version: Plot rules all, even the One Ring.
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Offline arthurfallz

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Re: The One Ring DFRPG Stats
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2011, 05:48:33 PM »
You say that you disagree with the build, but I can't tell why.

The One Ring already demands an aspect, so that's covered.

Are you saying that you don't like the attempt to stat up things like this?

I think the last statement gets close to what I object to. It's not very easy to stat, and lacks a lot of point to stat. Even the latest entry on this (between my first entry and this reply) still gives the Ring an "auto-corrupt" feature. It would, in the FATE system, corrupt by means of the Bearer's Aspect. It also fails to take into account the Ring's Command (it isn't limited to direct underlings), the dynamics that pure emotions cause the Ring (Love seems to be a fairly good defense), and what it does to the other Rings (which is so complex, and really, requires being a being of power on the level of one of the Faerie Queens or possibly a senior, senior wizard).

I've done this before myself, and especially after listening the the lessons of the Tolkien Professor, I've figured that things like the Great Rings (including the One Ring / Sauron's Ring / The Master Ring) are just too big to stat. No offense intended. I would instead make it less about the "magic ring" part of the object, and more about the "plot token" part of it. What does it do? Having it should also have variable scale on Refresh - Frodo has far less mastery of it as the beginning of Fellowship than he does by even half way through The Two Towers.

I not only say that the Great Rings, especially the Elven Rings of Power and the One Ring are beyond functional stats, but that in FATE they are much better served as entries on the sheet, general principles to govern them, and Aspects to make the other "perilous to weild" parts of the Ring practical.

But since that would be lame to say "I wouldn't do it" and shoot down the builds, I offer The One Ring, for example (and Spoiler tagged so it's not a wall post). How this could work in the Dresdenverse would be to make Sauron some horribly powerful demon, at least on the same scale as Lucifer, and instead of Middle Earth it's Earth, and instead of Mount Doom it's a horrible pit of fire in Hell.

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