No True Name - How to cost it?

[SunlessNick]

I have this power/weakness in mind - the character type I'm thinking of in relation to it is based on White Wolf's Prometheans (a sort of Frankenstein's Monster-alike that's not truly part of the world and is rejected by it) - but for this thread, I'm trying to think more generally.  Anyway, it's having no true name in the magical sense.

The ramifications so far decided upon are:

Magical (or other supernatural powers) can't be targeted on the character via her name.  Likewise, sympathetic links don't work - cut off a bit of her hair, and there'll be no quality to it that still connects it to her.  While contagion doesn't come up as much as sympathy in the Dresdenverse, that wouldn't work either.  This doesn't confer any other immunity to magic.

Flip side:  the character can't make a sponsorship deap (nothing with which to sign on the dotted line as party of the second) or the kind of deal that Harry had going with Chauncy.  I largely regard this as a weakness-that-isn't, since few character concepts that work for this would include sponsorship deals anyway.

Whatever effect a Threshold has on the character is not negated by an invitation.  Essentially the barrier doesn't "think" to connect the invitation with the character.

People sense as wrongness about the character, making all social rolls one or two (not decided) steps more difficult; a roll which fails only because of this penalty is likely to provoke an aggressive response.  Unlike a lot of social penalties based on seeming off, this also applies to intimidation. 


How should I cost this?


And can you think of any more ramifications I should add (more than one or two more would be overkill though).

[Gatts]

Honestly? I'm not an expert on pricing things, but I'd say +0. Like Wizard's Constitution it sounds great but won't come up very often in a game. It might depend on the power level of the game and such though. The not being targeted by the sympathetic links might be useful, but it looks like it's vastly outweighed by trouble with thresholds and the penalty to social rolls. If you limit the social penalty to 1, and add some other benefit then I could see it being a -1 power.

[devonapple]

I imagine a Ward or some other localized indiscriminate magical effect would still land a hit on the character.

Could someone get a sympathetic link to something worn by the character instead? Would a canny opponent be able to successfully insert a trackable link into the character? Or is this almost complete immunity to any attempts to discriminately target the character specifically with Thaumaturgy?

[SunlessNick]

A ward and a tracker would both work - a spell or power that specifically requires them to be them would fail - but a generalised ward would just see "something there, not on the approved list"* and "specifically targeted at whomever is carrying X or in location Y" doesn't depend on the character's identity.

* If anything, exempting the character from a ward would be the hard part, probably requiring a pass key of some kind.

[ARedthorn]

I particularly like the idea, myself... I was a fan of promethean, and sad I never got to play it (very few people in my circle thought it was as interesting as I did)... and it can fit reasonably well into dresden while we're at it.

I'm kinda leaning towards it being a wash, myself... the penalties as they are are severe enough to make up for the benefits.

[wyvern]

I'd call it +0 to maybe +1, but requires an associated aspect.  The benefits are all well within the limits of aspect invocation, and most of the penalties (excepting only the minus to social rolls) represent reasonable compels.

[sinker]

Seems to me that the penalties grossly outweigh the benefits. Considering that there are half a dozen ways other than a true name to link a spell to someone, and really how often does a true name come into things? The benefit on it's own with no penalties I'd probably cost at +0.

Then factor in the fact that all thresholds will always effect the person negatively? That on it's own is pretty brutal, but then you add a social penalty? I would probably cost this at a +1 or +2 (or more likely remove the penalties, require an aspect that I can compel for said effects, and then cost it at a +0).

[ARedthorn]

If he's trying to mimic the flavor of Prometheans, then the social penalty is there for a reason... and are almost perfectly appropriate- they'd be able to interact effectively in the short term, but something about prometheans always... just plain disturbed people. If they worked hard at keeping isolated, avoiding social interaction, they could buy time... but one way or another, it always ends in torches and pitchforks. (one variety in particular craved social interaction, and were pretty decent at it, but still came off as 'broken goods' in a big way, and could never actually form non-abusive relationships)

This could arguably just be the effect of an appropriate high-concept... but it needs more, if that's where he wants to go with it.
A flat penalty to all social effects, say, -1 works well IMO... -2 might be a bit heavy, but /shrug.

The only other thing I could think of is some sort of penalty to social consequences (recovering 1 step more slowly, and always being flavored by the 'torches and pitchforks' disquiet caused by not being quite... right, somehow). How does that sound?

[devonapple]

Seems to me that the penalties grossly outweigh the benefits. Considering that there are half a dozen ways other than a true name to link a spell to someone, and really how often does a true name come into things? The benefit on it's own with no penalties I'd probably cost at +0.

Not just the true name: even hair or skin would fail to provide the necessary symbolic link, according to the OP's proposed power.

That means a party encountering this guy will try to steal a symbolic link the normal way, and fail. They would have to either hide a symbolic link ON the Promethean, or steal a link from the Promethean's clothes and hope he doesn't change them anytime soon.

[sinker]

Not just the true name: even hair or skin would fail to provide the necessary symbolic link, according to the OP's proposed power.

Ahh, I missed that. That is quite a bit more benefit, harder to cost then, maybe a -1 for the benefit alone, and a +0 or +1 with the penalties.

That seems odd to me from the thematic source though. Isn't their hair still part of them even if they're not part of this world?

[devonapple]

That seems odd to me from the thematic source though. Isn't their hair still part of them even if they're not part of this world?

It makes a good mystery, at least! This is one of those powers that would be awesome for an antagonist/misunderstood anti-hero, but hard to value for a player to possess.

[ARedthorn]

Arguably, no... this can be used for the occasional 'freak of nature' but is primarily intended to represent a frankenstien's monster...
So what would the hair, exactly, link to? The monster, or one of the dozen or so corpses he was made out of (depending on what part of the body the bit of hair or skin came from)? Easier to say the spell gets... confused, sort of.

[SunlessNick]

That seems odd to me from the thematic source though. Isn't their hair still part of them even if they're not part of this world?  -  sinker

It's still part of them, but as they don't have a name, the hair doesn't inherit it, and so a spell doesn't "know how" to connect them.  That's the flip side of what I said about Thresholds, that the Threshold doesn't "know how" to connect an invitation with the character.


Anyhoo, I'll go with +0 and the lower social penalty.  Thanks all.