Tank Character

[ways and means]

The most powerful tanks are people with incite anger (or just a high intimidate), infuriate and the rest in athletics, defense stunts and toughness or an Enchanted Item Master (but they are best or second best at pretty much every category).

[NicholasQuinn]

Naturally, I'm not saying other Tanks aren't worth considering: I'm just saying Wizard ones are.

As for non combat applications: that is what thaumaturgy is for. A Wizard can accomplish far more with that, than a Super Strong character can with their Strength.

[Sanctaphrax]

What exactly is a tank, anyway?

The OP seems to mean a bruiser type when he says it. Other people seem to mean any guy with really good defences. And some seem to mean a guy who takes the heat for his teammates.

And for what it's worth, I don't think shield spells are a very good way to become a tough character to hurt. They're only good in specific circumstances.

In other news, this thread just gave me a new character idea.

[NicholasQuinn]

From what I understand of the term 'Tank', it is a specific role found within RPGs (especially MMOs). Their job is to go in, take the pressure of their team mates by drawing the enemy to them (sometimes through an aggro system, sometimes through class abilities etc), and then sit and take damage (and the important bit:) without dying (hence high defenses).

The ability to deal out damage is usually less important, as they're often paired with high DPS (damage per second) builds. Although Tanks can, in some games, also deal out damage - if nothing else, it stops them getting bored.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

What exactly is a tank, anyway?

From what I understand of the term 'Tank', it is a specific role found within RPGs (especially MMOs). Their job is to go in, take the pressure of their team mates by drawing the enemy to them (sometimes through an aggro system, sometimes through class abilities etc), and then sit and take damage (and the important bit:) without dying (hence high defenses).

The ability to deal out damage is usually less important, as they're often paired with high DPS (damage per second) builds. Although Tanks can, in some games, also deal out damage - if nothing else, it stops them getting bored.

They're also largely irrelevant in DFRPG.  GMs aren't AI and they've little reason to make their NPCs as stupid as MMORPG baddies.

[ARedthorn]

True, but... the right bonus in intimidate, with the right stunts... and you can toss down some zone maneuvers, then compel the NPCs to ignore your buddies and attack only you.
[Side-note on the above: my group lets compels go both ways... it's not just a tool for the GM to use on the players... players can use them on NPCs. The NPCs though have the option to ignore the compel at a -2 penalty to whatever they do instead, if I really need them to.]

That said... something like that would be my priority. If I knew I had Toughness and Recovery covered, I'd even pass up Strength in favor of better Aggro (to use the MMO term).

Also, defensive casters aren't exclusively one-trick ponies, and used creatively, can be just as dangerous as any raw-stat-tank.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Hell, defensive casters can be a lot more dangerous than any tank if paired with someone who's good at the offensive end of things.  Massive shield/armor to start with; 12-14 shifts or so all to power at Chest Deep for instance.  Extend it.  A defensive maneuver like a displacement type spell.  Save the last mental bubble for an emergency and either start performing non-magical supportive maneuvers for the combat types or start shooting things.

That bit of defensive castering just made your entire party essentially invulnerable to evenly matched baddies or made one party member invulnerable to anything two refresh higher.  Equally spec'd offensive casters and mental track attackers excepted.

[zenten]

Is there any reason a Spirit based Evocation shield/armour can't protect against both physical and mental attacks?

[UmbraLux]

Is there any reason a Spirit based Evocation shield/armour can't protect against both physical and mental attacks?

How would you describe such a shield?  Preferably in a way which didn't also limit your actions.

By the rules, you could block all attack actions from a group.  That's a block more than a shield though (targeted at opponents rather than self).  Fitting it into the narrative is a bit more difficult.  And, in many ways, narrative mechanics trump game mechanics in FATE.  (Describing your block weakly opens the door to easy Declarations and Maneuvers which will help bypass / break it.)

[zenten]

My problem comes from trying to describe mental attacks from Insite Emotion or Evocation.  If I can't figure out how to describe those I can't figure out how to describe blocking them.

[Sanctaphrax]

Disordered thoughts:

-I think you overstate the invulnerability granted by a good shield. The other guys can always stack maneuvers, abuse the massive breaking bonuses of Strength powers, or just stall until the duration ends.

-Grr at mental attacks with evocation.

-I think that the best way to make an MMORPG-style tank in a game with non-stupid foes is to use mechanics that punish baddies for not targeting the tank. This would require some custom powers or stunts, but it's doable.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

-I think you overstate the invulnerability granted by a good shield. The other guys can always stack maneuvers, abuse the massive breaking bonuses of Strength powers, or just stall until the duration ends.

True enough but several characters who are lining up maneuvers for one to take advantage of are explicitly not beating the snot out of everyone while they do.  Waiting on a 6-10 exchange shield to run out when the wizard can just renew it is a chancy idea too.  Nothing's perfect but a good defense and a good offense almost always beat a slightly better offense.

-I think that the best way to make an MMORPG-style tank in a game with non-stupid foes is to use mechanics that punish baddies for not targeting the tank. This would require some custom powers or stunts, but it's doable.

For single targets, I'd say a character with Superb Might, a Strength power, and a grapple helping Stunt would be the way to go.  Evocation blocks for groups.  Better to keep them from ever dealing damage in the first place than to soak it.  Course that's just my opinion.
[/quote]

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Is there any reason a Spirit based Evocation shield/armour can't protect against both physical and mental attacks?

Yes.  If you go into enough detail to describe a shield that could block them both, you've given the NPCs plenty to work with for declarations, compels, and maneuvers.  Plus they're different enough that your GM may just flat out not allow it.

For mental shields, it's best to not give them any physical presence.  That's just another avenue that can be exploited against you.

[Kolat]

To clarify I was looking at bad ass melee combatant development. I currently have intimidate at 5, and the Homebrew Stunt (forgot the name but its on the list on these boards) that gives a +2 to Intimidation rolls when soneone knows who i am and/or what i am. But his 5 intimidation is in human form, not in his animal form... In animal I think its at a 2.

Would incite anger be worth it? Or maybe upping the inhuman ones or even poison claws since he has claws... Thanks for the help guys!

[Sanctaphrax]

Could you post your character sheet?

I really don't think I can say much more without seeing it.

PS: I've undergone a change of heart regarding stunt balance recently, so the stunt list here will likely change soon. I mention this because Scary Reputation, which your character apparently has, will likely be made less powerful by the changes. I apologize if this is inconvenient for you.