Evocation Move action

[Sanctaphrax]

Attacks are reduced in effect by defense rolls.

And if it makes things more balanced, then that's reason enough to deviate from the standard approach.

[sinker]

Attacks are reduced in effect by defense rolls.

The shifts of the spell are never reduced even with attacks. The total shifts of effort may be decreased, but the shifts of the spell are never affected (unless you consider the spell missing as a reduction of shifts).

Seems like there are plenty of ways in which this spell can be worked around. If the wizard is casting this against a single target then any compatriots will be working against him in the meantime. If the wizard casts this spell zone-wide in their own zone then they go flying too. As long as the melee targets are in the same zone as the wizard (which they should be) then he's limited to one target at a time, and I think the wizard is on the loosing end of that one.

[Sanctaphrax]

Even if the fighters start in the same zone, the wizard can step back supplementally and shove the melee dude(s) away.

And if the melee dude(s) is/are pushed back at least 2 zones, he's/they're not attacking the wizard next turn.

So as long as the wizard can keep the pushes up, melee dude(s) is/are doing nothing of importance.

This is essentially the same as the kiting issue with Supernatural and Mythic Speed, actually.

[sinker]

That's when the melee fighters get creative. Filling zones around the wizard and throwing up blocks to his movement (which a supplemental move would never surpass as it has no shifts of effort). A creative tactician can easily work around this.

[Watson]

Also, consider that the target is blasted in a straight line - in a relatively closed environment, it might not be possible to move the target more than a single zone.

What I also wanted is to allow the caster to be able to cast this type of Evocation on himself (without being too powerful).

Using it on a whole zone is interesting - it is not what I intended and I think that would make it too powerful.

I have also think that the Evocation is quite balanced if using it to push a target a short distance directly into a solid object (sure, this could easily be solved by using a straight Attack, but I wanted the Move Action to be able to handle this as well). Let's say that a wizard want to push a target only one zone away, into a solid concrete wall (which we for the sake of this example have a border value of 20 = way higher than what the wizard can handle). The wizard summons two shifts to move a man-sized target on zone. Then there is the solid wall, so the target can not be pushed further. The wizard then adds 6 shifts of power to try to go through the wall (but obviously fails). The effect of the spell would be that, regardless of the defense roll of the target, the target suffers 7 shifts of stress (1 for the zone movement, plus 6 for the attempt to go through the wall = stress equal to the border value, regardless if the border is crossed or not). Compare that with an Attack spell of power 8, which generates 8 shifts of stress, plus any additional stress based on how much the caster beats the defense value (which is stress that is not added in the case of the Evocation Move action). I think that it still feels OK, what do you think?

[DFJunkie]

Even if the fighters start in the same zone, the wizard can step back supplementally and shove the melee dude(s) away.

And if the melee dude(s) is/are pushed back at least 2 zones, he's/they're not attacking the wizard next turn.

Of course, the caster is taking at least 1 mental stress every time, and if the melee dude(s) have knives or other throwing weapons they'd have to be chucked at least 3 zones to be made ineffective.  Unless the spells are also causing stress to the melee fighters it's a losing proposition for the caster.

[Sanctaphrax]

Of course the spells are causing stress on the melee fighters. It says so in the OP.

And there really isn't much you can do about repeated pushes without compelling your target. Zone border won't work, because you need to be in close combat to do that if you don't have ranged combat capabilities.

I admit I'm being paranoid here, but the counter-arguments I've heard have been less than convincing.

PS: I think that the stress aspect here is quite balanced.

[computerking]

Would it be better to do move evocations as Special Effect attacks, where the shifts of power of the spell go to movement and only movement, and the spillover shifts from the control roll - defense roll represent themselves as stress? Narratively a 0-sum attack roll still knocks them back (and into/through barriers) but does no stress out of blind luck (eg. a weak spot in the wall), while attack roll stress can be considered to come from the initial hit and hitting barriers.

Moving yourself, however, would be highly dangerous, because you would not be resisting, and therefore would have the potential to go too far (So beware the sum of your Control Roll and intended Shifts of power), and take damage if you go through a barrier or three (perhaps an Endurance roll to brace yourself for the impacts).

And the idea of a Zone-wide version brings to mind a large-scale Force Push, throwing people all in the same direction.

[sinker]

Using it on a whole zone is interesting - it is not what I intended and I think that would make it too powerful.

Yeah, I wasn't sure either, however it's definitely something that should be addressed, 1) because all of the other evocation actions address how to extend them to more than one target, and 2) for the same reason you came up with this whole idea in the first place, people are going to envision throwing a bunch of thugs.

Something that occurs to me (and I'm not entirely sure about this) is that with multiple targets we could almost treat it like a spray attack, splitting shifts of effort between targets. I don't know if that would reduce it below even being effective, but it would certainly make it harder to knock a bunch of guys around.

[Watson]

Something that occurs to me (and I'm not entirely sure about this) is that with multiple targets we could almost treat it like a spray attack, splitting shifts of effort between targets.

This could work. A power 8 Evocation Move action would either move one human-sized target 4 zones or two targets of the same size 2 zones each. Note that the targeting roll needs to be split as well (even though the targeting roll does nothing more than enabling the spell to hit the target - any extra shifts does nothing).

[Sanctaphrax]

Targeting question: I cast an 8-shift push, but I only roll 5 to control. I take 3 backlash to get the spell off. My opponent rolls an Athletics defence of 6. What happens?

[sinker]

Targeting question: I cast an 8-shift push, but I only roll 5 to control. I take 3 backlash to get the spell off. My opponent rolls an Athletics defence of 6. What happens?

He defends. Any time the defense is higher than your targeting roll the effect is avoided.

[Sanctaphrax]

You sure?

I don't even think non-attack evocations even have targeting rolls. But this looked like an exception.

[sinker]

Maneuvers are resisted. The only thing that isn't resisted is a block.

[Sanctaphrax]

Resisted, yeah. But I think you roll to resist the shifts, not the control roll.