Evocation Move action

[Watson]

As moving people and stuff with Evocation has been discussed (and used) in the books, I would like to be able to do it in the game as well. It should be possible to do, but certainly not safe. So here are my rules for rules in this regard (please comment!):

Evocation Move action
An Evocation that moves an object (can be the caster). Every 2 shifts of power moves a human-sized object one zone. All moves must be in a straight line. Every 3 shifts of power moves a "large" object (creature with Hulking Size) one zone. Every 4 shifts of power moves a very large object (like a car) one zone. Every Border crossed costs one additional shift of power. The Evocation causes physical stress on the target equal to the number of zones moved (to represent that the body is not meant to move that fast) plus one for each border crossed (to represent things like flying through a window). It is possible to reduce the stress generated by one for each additional shift of power. The target is normally resisting using Athletics.

[Viatos]

Why not just use the rules for moving someone via grapple for others, and moving yourself via Athletics for self-targeted movement spells?

[Sanctaphrax]

Evocation movement rules look good-ish, though they're a bit complex for my taste.

Would recommend changing the 1-shift/border thing to shifts equal to border value.

Why not to use Athletics movement rules: Too easy. Makes Evocation movement into an effective way to get around.

Why not to use grapple movement rules: Slow, which is not always appropriate. Also, magical grapples are a dangerous area for balance.

[Wyrdrune]

the one or two times evocation has been used to move a car out of the way or something like that in my games, i've used the tables on page 321 for reference.

[Watson]

When I wrote the rules, I had the scene at Bock's where Harry blasts one opponent through the window and and out across the street.

[NicholasQuinn]

If you go to the downloads section on the DFRPG's website, there are some really useful links - some of which are from Rick Neal; that are well worth reading. One of them details how he'd make an Evocation Movement spell, and I think it works well.

[sinker]

Thanks for your take on this Watson. I like it.

I think grapples can be managed, but they really aren't effective for the kind of movement we are talking about. The movement of a grapple is almost like a side effect. If you're grappling something, then your primary desired effect should be the block, not the movement.

I never liked Rick Neal's solution for the same reason Sanctaphrax threw up for using the athletics rules. It's too easy, and makes it much better than simply moving. It's all too easy for a submerged character to throw 8-10 shift spells around. With that in mind you'd have mages throwing themselves (or others) across the map with ease. We're talking complete control of where most targets are at any given time (especially if you allow them to hit multiple targets, either by splitting shifts or zone-wide evocation).

Anyway, I really do like your solution Watson. Seems like it works.

[DFJunkie]

Well there's always the option for the GM to say no.  In Rick Neal's formulation the movement is uncontrolled and dangerous; not the type of thing a sane Wizard would engage in regularly.  If a Wizard PC wants to get a tactical advantage on an NPC or as a last resort to get himself or a companion to some crucial goal it works perfectly.  If the Wizard is using it as a regular means of transportation you're more than justified to either refuse outright or hand the victim a fate point and state that the hapless Wizard has just sent them into the middle of Lake Michigan (or whatever local body of water would serve your purposes.)

[devonapple]

I never liked Rick Neal's solution for the same reason Sanctaphrax threw up for using the athletics rules. It's too easy, and makes it much better than simply moving. It's all too easy for a submerged character to throw 8-10 shift spells around.

Perhaps, but they can't throw them around for long.

Evocation Move action
Every 3 shifts of power moves a "large" object (creature with Hulking Size) one zone. Every 4 shifts of power moves a very large object (like a car) one zone.

I tend to rule that Hulking Size is car-sized or larger, so I'd fold these two options together, or possibly even switch the costs.

[Watson]

Anyway, I really do like your solution Watson. Seems like it works.

Thanks very much, Sinker. As the characters do this type of Evocation in the books, I wanted it to be available in the game too.

I see it as a powerful force push. It shouldn't be too powerful if used on an enemy (compared to a regular Attack) and it should be dangerous enough for the caster in case he wants use it on himself.

[Sanctaphrax]

Hm.

After a bit of thought, I realize that this might or might not be abusable. It depends on how it works.

Question:

If I throw an 8 power push spell with 8 control at a normal-sized guy who defends with a Superb Athletics roll, what happens? Does his defense reduce the 4 zone push to a 1 zone push? Or a 2 zone push? And how much stress does he take?

[Watson]

Hm.

After a bit of thought, I realize that this might or might not be abusable. It depends on how it works.

Question:

If I throw an 8 power push spell with 8 control at a normal-sized guy who defends with a Superb Athletics roll, what happens? Does his defense reduce the 4 zone push to a 1 zone push? Or a 2 zone push? And how much stress does he take?

It is a very good question. My initial thought is that as long as the "target roll" (i.e. the Discipline roll) is at least matching the defese roll, the evocation works as intended. If one compares with an Attack spell, the Weapon value is unaffected by the targets defense roll. So I would say 4 zones and 4 stress (if the same power would have been used to Attack, it would have been 8+3=13 stress and obviously no zones moved). Or is that too powerful? Other suggestions?

[DFJunkie]

You can also adjudicate "blast him into a different zip code" as a narrative device.  If the target is taken out the result is, well, a long and annoying walk.  If consequences are applied they should be appropriate to hitting solid objects at high speed, and stress is just stress. 

If it's cast to try to get out of a conflict then it can be dealt with as a concession, just require the caster to take a mental consequence reflecting the extra effort he put into the casting.

Really, the only time zones moved becomes important is when the purpose of the spell is tactical within an ongoing conflict. 

[Sanctaphrax]

That might be too powerful. A wizard who simply cast one of those force pushes every turn could completely shut down a melee fighter under some circumstances.

Narrating it as a take-out result would deny people the chance to do what Harry did to the Loup-Garou, which would be a shame.

[sinker]

It certainly seems appropriate though. There is no other spell where the effect is reduced by the defense roll, why would we change that?