Author Topic: Cleaning Up The Stunt List  (Read 40511 times)

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2011, 08:58:08 AM »
Should reword 'Good Intentions' to refer explicitly to maneuvers, as attacks are also used to 'create an aspect' in the form of consequences, otherwise it is both broad and very powerful (benefiting both attacks and maneuvers, and granting a +2 to attacks).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:59:55 AM by Tedronai »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #151 on: November 17, 2011, 09:12:51 PM »
Sure, anything to avoid ambiguity.

It's also supposed to boost Declarations, though.

Editing.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #152 on: November 20, 2011, 03:29:18 AM »
Alright then. Now for the second post. First of all, I'll copy-paste it and remove the stuff that we've already decided to get rid of. Then I'll add Traffic Watcher and any other stunts that were moved into the appropriate skills earlier.

Removed:
Breath Control
Brutality
Extreme Brutality
Backlash Absorber
Instinctive Defense
Touch Of Emotion

Added:
Traffic Watcher

Discipline:

Disciplined Body: Your body moves because your mind tells it to. Use Discipline to determine the length of your physical stress track.
Master of the Sight: You are remarkably good at seeing through your third eye. Increase your Discipline and Lore skills by one when using them to interpret or control the Sight.
Spiritual Integration: You get along well with your Demonic Co-Pilot. Increase your Discipline skill by 2 when using it to resist stress from using your Demonic Co-Pilot.
Unbroken Composure: Your mental strength allows you to remain calm when others would be caught off guard. You may use your Discipline skill for the Avoiding Surprise trapping of the Alertness skill.
Focused Fallout: Your spells are hard on the environment, but they're harder on the guys that you hit with them. When you take fallout as a consequence of casting a spell with insufficient control, reduce the power of the spell by two shifts less.
Trained As A Unit: You have been extensively trained to work together with others. Increase any skill used to work together with other characters who have this stunt by two.
Control The Conversation: Your tremendous self-control gives you tremendous social control. You may use your Discipline skill to determine initiative in a social conflict.
Fearless: You are not easily scared. All attempts to intimidate you suffer a two shift penalty.
Defensive Focus: Your incredible focus makes it easy to avoid the clumsy attacks of your enemies. You may use your Discipline skill to defend against attacks from enemies in the same zone.
Reflexive Shield: Magic is the only defence you need. When you are attacked, you may sacrifice your next action to cast a defensive evocation.

Landscape Weapon: Within your domain, the earth and sky are nothing more than your weapons. Attacks that you make with the Demesne power are Weapon: 2.
Landscape Command: You control your domain even more closely than most. Increase your Discipline skill by two when using it to make maneuvers in conjunction with your Demesne power.
Laser Focus: You find it easy to clear your mind in a stressful situation. When making a Discipline maneuver to create an aspect based on concentration, willpower, or clear thought, add two to your Discipline roll.
I'll Just Ignore You: Counterarguments are a waste of time. You prefer to simply not listen to the people you disagree with. You may use your Discipline skill for the social defence trapping of Rapport.
Mind of Steel: Magical mental influence is useless against your fortress-like mind! Add two to your Discipline skill when using it to defend against supernatural mental attacks.

Driving:

City Driver: You've spent most of your life driving up and down the same streets. Add one to your Driving skill on city streets and ignore one point worth of increased difficulty due to traffic.
Gunner: You’re a former military man with the training to use vehicle weaponry. Use Driving instead of Guns to use weapons mounted on vehicles.
One Hand On The Wheel: Multitasking behind the wheel is second nature to you. Treat your Driving skill as Fantastic whenever it would complement, modify, or restrict another skill.
Sailor: For you, Driving would be better described as “Sailing.” Pick a type of water vehicle. Increase your Driving skill by one when using it to operate watercraft, or by two if the watercraft is part of your chosen vehicle type.
Signature Ride: You’ve used a certain type of vehicle so much that its operation is instinctive to you. Pick a type of vehicle. Add two to your Driving skill when using that sort of vehicle.
Traffic Watcher: You really know how to use those rear-view mirrors. You may use your Driving skill instead of your Alertness skill to notice vehicles and road conditions, to detect vehicular ambushes, and to determine initiative while operating a vehicle.

Empathy:

Read You Like A Book:People's emotions are pretty damn obvious to you. Add two to your Empathy skill when using it to read people.
Bartender's Ear: Like any good bartender, you know how to understand drunk people. Add two to your Empathy skill when dealing with people who are under the influence of alcohol.

Endurance:

Tough as Nails: You don’t seem to feel pain the way normal people do. When an opponent tags or invokes one of your consequences in a physical conflict they only receive +1 to their roll. If they choose to reroll, you may lock down one of his dice and leave him only 3 to reroll.
Spell Resistance: Your body rejects the effects of magic more effectively than most. You have a natural armour score of 1 against magic which stacks with everything.
Inexhaustible Power: You always have a bit more juice to draw upon. You may take two additional mild mental or physical consequences when facing the stress incurred from using evocation.
Fireproof: You are incredibly resistant to fire and extreme heat in general. You have a natural armour score of 2 against fire.
Effortless Recovery: You don’t just heal fast. You heal easily. You may spend a supplemental action to remove a minor consequence with a Recovery power without taking a -1 penalty to your main action that exchange.

Was That Supposed To Hurt?: You are TOUGH. You don't avoid attacks, you just take them right. Use your Endurance skill to “dodge” attacks.
The King Still Stands: You are the king! An army of commoners is nothing more than fodder for your sword to cut down. When fighting against multiple opponents on your own, you may take two additional mild physical consequences.
Toughness Of Mind And Body: A guy as tough as you has no need to be afraid. You may use your Endurance skill to resist fear.

Fists:

Patterns: Martial arts are actually a lot like dancing. You may use Fists instead of Performance to demonstrate martial arts moves.
Competition Fighting: You are a martial artist, not a fighter. Add one to your Fists skill as long as you aren't in a real fight.
Board Breaking: You break stuff with your hands. Use Fists for the Breaking Things trapping of Might.
Street Fighter: You don't fight by the rules. If there's a piece of lead pipe lying around, you'll use it. You may use your Fists skill to wield improvised weapons.
No Holds Barred Beatdown: What’s the opposite of mercy? Whatever it is, you show plenty of it in your fights. All of your attacks with Fists inflict X additional stress, where X is the level of the worst consequence that you have inflicted on the target this scene.
Use Their Strength Against Them: Excessive strength can  be a disadvantage if your opponent knows how to exploit it. You may use the Might skill of another character to complement your Fists or Might skill when attacking, defending against, or grappling with that character.
Throws and holds: If you aren’t careful when attacking a wrestler, you’ll end up on the ground. On a successful defence with Fists, you sacrifice your next action and tag or invoke an aspect in order to turn that defence into an immediate and automatically successful grapple attempt. You get no bonus to the grapple attempt from full defence and your target must be within range.
Guard Breaker: You have a talent for getting around certain types of defence. Pick a skill. Add one to your Fists skill when attacking someone who is using that skill to defend.
Potent Poison: The poison produced by your body is exceptionally powerful. Add one to your Fists skill for any use of the Venomous trapping of the Claws power.
Destroyer Of Abominations: You hit harder when your enemy is something blasphemous. All attacks that you make with the Fists skill inflict two additional stress to creatures that are an offense to your faith.
Kick The Bruise: It really hurts to take two hits to the same place. Whenever you tag or invoke a consequence to benefit a Fists attack, that attack inflicts two extra stress.
Storm Of Punches: A great warrior fights as well against a thousand enemies as he does against one. You may take a -2 penalty to a Fists attack in order to have that attack affect everyone in the zone (except yourself, of course).
Demesne-Assisted Combat Focus: It's easy to win a fight when you control the world around you. Add one to all attack rolls in which you tag or invoke an aspect created with the Demesne power.
Demesne-Assisted Combat Specialization: It's easy to win a fight when you control the world around you. All attack rolls in which you tag or invoke an aspect created with the Demesne power inflict two extra stress.
Bull Charge: You know how to use your momentum in a fight. If you move at least one zone as a supplemental action before making an attack with Fists, that attack inflicts two additional stress.
Talking With Your Fists: A guy with the ability to hurt you is always scary, even if he's got no charisma at all. You may use your Fists skill instead of your Intimidation skill when threatening someone with violence.
Unorthodox Fighting: People with formal training are less able to defend against your tomfoolery in combat. Add one to your Fists skill when making attacks against opponents who adhere strictly to a formal style of combat.
Give As Good As I Get: Sometimes, you have to do something crazy in order to win a fight. Once per scene, when you are attacked by someone in your zone, you may spend a Fate Point. If you do so, you defend against the attack with an effective skill of Mediocre and may not use a Block to replace your defense roll. This might sound pretty grim, but take heart; if you attack your attacker with your Fists skill during your next action, you may add three to your attack roll and increase the weapon rating of your attack by three.

Guns:

Killer Of Animals: Guns aren't for killing people: they're for killing animals. All of your attacks with guns inflict two additional stress to mundane animals.
Master Of The Lasso: (Require Lasso) You are very good at using a lasso. You may use your Guns, Might, or Weapons skill with a +1 bonus to wield a lasso.
Long-Range Combat: You're most comfortable when your enemies are a ways away. Add 1 to your guns skill when using it to attack a character at least 2 zones away.
Killer of Many: You have killed a lot of people, but not so many monsters. All of your attacks with Guns inflict two additional stress to Pure Mortals.

Empty Mag Empty Room: (Requires Blaze Away) Sometimes you just have to fire every bullet you have. When you attack with a gun, you may choose to fire every bullet in your gun at once. If you do, each attack you make that exchange gets a +1 bonus.
Way Of The Gun: Guns are your area of expertise. You may use your Guns skill to build and repair firearms. Add 1 to the stress inflicted by each attack you make with a gun that you either made or modified heavily.
Personal Arsenal: You own a great number of weapons, and you get new ones all the time. Use your Guns skill instead of your Resources skill when dealing with weaponry.
Scope User: You know how to use a scope. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make manoeuvres related to aiming while using a scope or laser sight.
Ammo Selection: There are a lot of different types of bullet in the world, and each of them is suitable for a different situation. Given the chance to select and use ammunition appropriate to the situation, all of your attacks with Guns inflict two additional stress.
Sea Urchin Launcher Wielder: You are proficient in the use of the weapons of the Fomor people who live beneath the sea. Add one to your Guns skill when using it to attack with Fomor weapons.
This... Is My BOOMSTICK!: Somehow, talking like an action hero helps you shoot like one. Add one to your Guns skill when attacking with a shotgun, provided you can incorporate a cheesy one-liner in the combat.
Talking With Guns: A guy with a gun and the skill to use it is always scary, even if he's got no charisma at all. You may use your Guns skill instead of your Intimidation skill when threatening someone with a gun.

Intimidation:

Scare 'em Straight: You are a an authority figure. Part of your job is to put the fear of the law in potential miscreants. Add 2 to your Intimidation skill when using it against someone under your authority (ie: students for a teacher, magical practitioners for a Warden).
Bad Cop: Cruelty is more effective when given a basis for comparison. When working together with someone who has the Good Cop stunt, add two to your Intimidation skill.
And Your Little Dog Too: People who shrug off the most brutal threats against themselves will often fold when their loved ones are threatened. When threatening someone by threatening other people, add two to your Intimidation skill.

Rorschach-Style Information Gathering: You don't ask nicely when there's stuff you need to know. You may use Intimidation for the Gathering Information trapping of Contacts.
Scary Reputation: It’s at lot easier to scare someone if they’re already scared of your reputation. Add two to your Intimidation skill against anyone who knows who or what you are.
Scary As F**k: You are just plain terrifying. There’s no other way to put it. All attacks that you make with the Intimidate skill inflict 2 extra stress.

Polite Threats: (Requires Subtle Menace) It takes a special kind of person to make a death threat at a tea party. You are that special kind of person. You may use Intimidation without being rude or directly threatening someone.
I Find Your Lack Of Faith Disturbing: Really dedicated people are kind of scary. Add one to your Intimidation skill when using it against someone whose Conviction skill is lower than yours.
Torturer: You have the complete lack of mercy that is needed to torture someone properly. You may use your Intimidation skill to inflict mental stress as long as your target is entirely within your power.
Imposing Attitude: For some reason, people seem reluctant to disagree with you. Maybe it’s your cologne. You may use your Intimidation skill for social defence.
Threats Of Violence: Fear and pain: they’re like best buddies. You always try to keep them together. Add two to your Intimidation skill when targeting someone who you have physically harmed recently.
Mesmerizing Gaze: Something about your eyes is frightening to people. Perhaps it's something similar to the effect behind a wizard's soulgaze. Add two to your Intimidation skill when able to force prolonged eye contact with your target.
I Could Have You Killed: Having a bunch of minions makes you scarier. Scientific fact. Add two to your Intimidation skill when you have subordinates present.
Stirrer: You are very good at stirring up conflict amongst other people. Add to two to your intimidate skill when attempting to get one person angry with another.

Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #153 on: November 20, 2011, 04:30:14 AM »
I'll Just Ignore you: I could see that being a conviction stunt also, signifying stubborn behavior.

Disciplined Body: I think this makes wizards no longer need Endurance, which makes them need less skills which makes them more powerful with less need to diversify.  The stunt is fine in theory, but that is one issue I see.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2011, 04:44:30 AM »
Shield Of Dogma is pretty similar to I'll Just Ignore You. Is that what you meant?

You might well be right about Disciplined Body, but the stunt is simple and totally in accordance with stunt building guidelines. So I don't want to mess with it too much.

The best solution that occurs to me for that possible problem is to slap a prerequisite on Disciplined Body. That ought to keep the dabbling wizards out.

While Disciplined Body might beat out 1 Refinement for some wizards, I doubt that it and another stunt would beat out 2 Refinements.

Thoughts on what the prereq could be?

Offline ways and means

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #155 on: November 20, 2011, 05:00:06 AM »
I think Disciplined Body is fine, a wizard could with the right justification already take for 1 refresh Supernatural Toughness (with a +3 catch) for +4 stress +2 armour (or with a IoP Mythical Toughness). Comparatively the most advantage a wizard can get out of discipline body is 2 stress and a mild consequence (which are kind of weak in my opinion given they can be tagged for a +2 each) . Spending a refresh on enchanted item defense would also be more effective (High level Armour or blocks effect). I don't see it breaking the game anytime soon not when more refinement is still heaps better. 

Disciplined Body really seems meant for wizards it gives them reasonable stress without investing in more skills as far as I can tell the point of this stunt is to advantage pc's with high discipline (which will mainly be casters) so making the stunt more difficult for wizards to gain just promotes refinement maxing (the way to go for power gaming anyway). But in turns of game balance focused wizard will probably have  discipline, lore, conviction as pinnacle skills regardless of this stunt so really all this stunt will do is allow a wizard to have a better/different secondary skills which really don't effect wizards power level all that much.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 05:26:35 AM by ways and means »
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Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #156 on: November 20, 2011, 05:32:23 AM »
Shield Of Dogma is pretty similar to I'll Just Ignore You. Is that what you meant?

You might well be right about Disciplined Body, but the stunt is simple and totally in accordance with stunt building guidelines. So I don't want to mess with it too much.

The best solution that occurs to me for that possible problem is to slap a prerequisite on Disciplined Body. That ought to keep the dabbling wizards out.

While Disciplined Body might beat out 1 Refinement for some wizards, I doubt that it and another stunt would beat out 2 Refinements.

Thoughts on what the prereq could be?

Likely isn't a good solution to the issue.  I just felt like pointing it out.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #157 on: November 20, 2011, 05:34:39 AM »
Lets not balance stunts against optimized Items Of Power, okay?

Or against powers, for that matter.

A consequence can only be tagged if it was inflicted or discovered by someone else. Do it to yourself while spellcasting and you're home free.

I honestly think that Refinement is stronger than Disciplined Body for the majority of wizards. But is it stronger enough?

Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #158 on: November 20, 2011, 06:46:12 AM »
Lets not balance stunts against optimized Items Of Power, okay?

Or against powers, for that matter.

A consequence can only be tagged if it was inflicted or discovered by someone else. Do it to yourself while spellcasting and you're home free.

I honestly think that Refinement is stronger than Disciplined Body for the majority of wizards. But is it stronger enough?

Refinement does not grant you stresses or consequences.

Allowing a character to use one skill for everything causes a character to lack depth ..thats boring to me.  Also tends to lean toward OP-hood.  I think sanctaphrax and I agree that one skill characters can be bad.

Offline ways and means

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #159 on: November 20, 2011, 01:19:38 PM »
Refinement does not grant you stresses or consequences.

Allowing a character to use one skill for everything causes a character to lack depth ..thats boring to me.  Also tends to lean toward OP-hood.  I think sanctaphrax and I agree that one skill characters can be bad.

As I pointed out this skill isn't going to lead to a character using one skill for everything a wizard still needs three apex skills lore, discipline, conviction, given the stunt doesn't affect the apex skills what this stunt will lead too is someone taking athletics instead of Endurance, or contacts instead of endurance and as endurance as a skill is comparatively boring (in DD terms its just fortitude saves and hit point) I think this stunt could actually make a wizard more interesting if they choose a more interesting secondary skill.   

« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 01:22:13 PM by ways and means »
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Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #160 on: November 20, 2011, 04:00:29 PM »
I'll grant you that.  I just prefer to keep as many skills useful as possible.

Offline ways and means

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #161 on: November 20, 2011, 05:25:37 PM »
I'll grant you that.  I just prefer to keep as many skills useful as possible.

True but that criticism could be labeled on any skill trapping swap stunts being the whole purpose of said stunts is to give you more flexibility with your apex skills as opposed to needing to bump up everything. The stunt itself wasn't game breaking IMO if the stunt tried to merge discipline, conviction or lore that when it would get game breaking such as

Intelligent Casting (Lore) Your superior knowledge of magic allows you to create forma to aid in the controlling of your spells, you can use lore for the control rolls of spells.

But even then you would lose out on the mental defense of discipline making it less than optimal. Having an entire skill is almost always better than just a trapping. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 05:27:36 PM by ways and means »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #162 on: November 20, 2011, 10:18:07 PM »
Exactly.

A skill is supposed to be much better than a stunt.

Unfortunately, the stress track trapping of Endurance is probably the only trapping of Endurance that many characters (not just wizards) care about.

Which would make this stunt equal to that skill.

The solution: give it a prereq that moves another trapping of Endurance, to prevent inappropriate dabbling.

New versions:

Determinate: Your astonishing determination allows you to push yourself beyond your limits. Use your Discipline skill for the Long-Term Action trapping of the Endurance skill. (A similar stunt could exist in Conviction.)

Disciplined Body: (Requires Determinate) Your body moves because your mind tells it to. Use your Discipline skill to determine the length of your physical stress track. (A similar stunt could exist in Conviction.)

Thoughts?

PS: Agree completely about Intelligent Casting.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #163 on: November 21, 2011, 05:45:44 AM »
Alright, let's try and fix the purple Discipline stunts.

As always, feedback wanted.

Trained As A Unit: You have been extensively trained to work together with others. Increase any skill used to work together with other characters who have this stunt by two.

Should be limited to maneuvers with a single skill. Can think of two ways to do this, both of which would work in almost any skill. Will use Guns as the base skill because the character this was created for was an ordinary soldier.

Trained As A Unit: You were trained alongside the rest of your unit, and now that unit is like a single organism. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make a maneuver while working together with at least one other character who has this stunt for the same unit as you.
Team Player: You have been extensively trained to work together with others. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make a maneuver to grant an aspect to an ally of yours.

Defensive Focus: Your incredible focus makes it easy to avoid the clumsy attacks of your enemies. You may use your Discipline skill to defend against attacks from enemies in the same zone.

Well, my efforts to fix this have produced a new Lore stunt. It bears little resemblance to its inspiration, though. If anyone has an idea for how a Discipline for physical defense stunt could work, I want to hear it.

Seen It Before: You've seen just about every conceivable attack evocation at some point in your life. Which means that you know how to get out of the way when someone tries to blast you with magic. You may use your Lore skill instead of your Athletics skill when defending against a magical attack.

Reflexive Shield: Magic is the only defence you need. When you are attacked, you may sacrifice your next action to cast a defensive evocation.

This will remain unchanged, given that people seem to think it's okay. Unless Arcane comes back from his playtest saying it's broken, of course.

Landscape Weapon: Within your domain, the earth and sky are nothing more than your weapons. Attacks that you make with the Demesne power are Weapon: 2.
Landscape Command: You control your domain even more closely than most. Increase your Discipline skill by two when using it to make maneuvers in conjunction with your Demesne power.


These two are super narrow. I think I'll merge them, and darn the rule saying that you can only add one to attacks.

Landscape Command: You control your domain even more closely than most. Increase your Discipline skill by two when using it in conjunction with your Demesne power.*

I'll Just Ignore You: Counterarguments are a waste of time. You prefer to simply not listen to the people you disagree with. You may use your Discipline skill for the social defence trapping of Rapport.

Not sure exactly why this is purple. It looks fine to me.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 05:12:56 AM by Sanctaphrax »

Offline computerking

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #164 on: November 21, 2011, 03:37:12 PM »
There's something about Trained as a Unit that seemed like an attempt to get the benefits of a group-based Aspect without having to worry about getting Compelled. But would requiring a related Aspect (to define what group/Unit you were trained to work in) be too much of a hindrance? I can't see, for example, a Trained Mossad agent being able to gel with a unit of NY S.W.A.T.
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