Author Topic: Cleaning Up The Stunt List  (Read 40550 times)

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #120 on: November 04, 2011, 10:58:56 PM »
Alright, fine, we can have this debate again.

But not here. This thread has a fairly specific purpose, and I'd rather keep the philosophical debates out of it.

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #121 on: November 05, 2011, 12:50:41 AM »
Conviction as a universal physical defense is actually probably possible without Powers. See the canon stunt Blessed Words. (YS page 150). It lets you block attacks with Conviction. The fluff justification is basically that your saintliness makes people not want to attack you. (Would you punch Gandhi in the face?)

If it's possible to block, it should be possible to defend.

So Conviction Footwork is probably possible. But it should probably require Blessed Words in addition to Shield Of Faith.

Why should Shield Of Faith be limited to melee range? If your faith repels certain creatures within arm's reach, it can probably repel them from 10 feet away too. Or so goes my reasoning.

PS: @ways and means: No. We've been over this. Powers and stunts are different things. See my previous arguments on this point. Also, USE MY APEX SKILL TO DEFEND is not much less lame as a power.

Yeah, not saying Conviction couldn't work as a defense but more that the particular color of SoF sounds too power-ish as written in the old form.  Needs spelled out justification to work against attacks from non-faith-averse creatures or we're looking at a slippery slope of silliness.
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Offline ways and means

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #122 on: November 05, 2011, 01:06:49 AM »
Alright, fine, we can have this debate again.

But not here. This thread has a fairly specific purpose, and I'd rather keep the philosophical debates out of it.

No point we won't agree my bad for bringing it up again.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2011, 02:08:11 AM »
@The Mighty Buzzard: Good point.

@ways and means: You're probably right. I mean, if we were going to convince each other we'd have done it by now.

@everyone: First four purple stunts now:

Protector: You are an expert at the protection of others. Whenever you use a skill to create a block to protect another character, add two to your roll. (This does not apply to spellcasting).

becomes an Athletics stunt that reads:

Protector: You are an expert at the protection of others. Add two to your Athletics skill when using it to create a block to protect another character.

Traffic Watcher: You really know how to use those rear-view mirrors. Add two to your Alertness skill as long as you are in a car.

becomes a Driving stunt that reads:

Traffic Watcher: You really know how to use those rear-view mirrors. You may use your Driving skill instead of your Alertness skill to notice vehicles and road conditions, to detect vehicular ambushes, and to determine initiative while operating a vehicle.

Excellent Mount: You are very good at carrying other people. Add two to your Athletics skill while being ridden.

is being modified significantly for reasons of lolwut correction. It becomes:

War Mount: You work together with your rider in order to defend yourselves. Add two to your Athletics skill when using it for defense while being ridden.

And I'm adding another stunt that might be helpful for human horses too:

Weight Training: You can operate normally with a hundred pounds on your back. Treat your Might skill as Fantastic (+6) when using it to modify another skill.

Whether you need a stunt to be ridden in the first place is left as an exercise for the GM.

Five-Fingered Discount: Why buy what you can steal? You may use your Burglary skill instead of your Resources skill to “buy” things. Everything “bought” this way has the aspect “Stolen Property”.

is modified slightly to become:

Five-Fingered Discount: Why buy what you can steal? You may use your Burglary skill instead of your Resources skill to “buy” things. Everything “bought” this way has the aspect “Stolen Property”. The difficulty of an attempt to “buy” something with Burglary may or may not be the same as the difficulty of an attempt to buy that same thing with Resources, at the GM's discretion. The time required may also vary.

Any objections?

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2011, 03:13:16 AM »
Protector:  This could be skinned to work for almost any skill.  Might be worth putting a footnote in to such effect.  If they want it to work for all skills at once it needs to be one of their aspects and used that way.

Traffic Watcher: Peachy keen, jellybean.

Excellent Mount:  Yeah, it was way too broad as written.  War Mount is much better.

Weight Training: Looks too broad to me but I don't have any specific reasoning.

Five-Fingered Discount: Looks fine.

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Offline Silverblaze

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2011, 03:22:27 AM »
Protector:  This could be skinned to work for almost any skill.  Might be worth putting a footnote in to such effect.  If they want it to work for all skills at once it needs to be one of their aspects and used that way.

Traffic Watcher: Peachy keen, jellybean.

Excellent Mount:  Yeah, it was way too broad as written.  War Mount is much better.

Weight Training: Looks too broad to me but I don't have any specific reasoning.

Five-Fingered Discount: Looks fine.

You sir beat me to the punch yet again.  Only difference is I see little issue with Weight Training.  Weight Training could also in theory be Endurance if reflavored.

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2011, 03:37:02 AM »
You sir beat me to the punch yet again.

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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2011, 05:51:41 AM »
What do you see wrong with Weight Training?

I didn't expect any trouble with that one, since it's basically a copy of a canon stunt.

Anyway, about Protector: I've actually been considering tagging stunts that could work in other skills. There are a lot of Weapons stunts that'd work in Guns or Fists.

What would people think of little notes at the end of stunt writeups saying (A similar stunt could exist under the X or Y skills.)?

Uncanny Typist might actually be worth adding to the list...I imagine that most Scholarship-based writing rolls would benefit.

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2011, 06:35:40 AM »
What do you see wrong with Weight Training?

Nothing really. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth same as the RAW stunts it's similar to.

Anyway, about Protector: I've actually been considering tagging stunts that could work in other skills. There are a lot of Weapons stunts that'd work in Guns or Fists.

What would people think of little notes at the end of stunt writeups saying (A similar stunt could exist under the X or Y skills.)?

Couldn't hurt.  Might even start a separate category of super-stunts on the wiki for the ones that can be colored to fit multiple skills equally well.  Protection, for instance, could be taken for any skill your character has the ability to do a block with.  Possibly multiple times, once for each skill you want to be able to use it with.

I know Fred and co would prefer they all be separate stunts and have unique names but there's no reason the players can't think those up themselves after they get the mechanics from the board or wiki.

Uncanny Typist might actually be worth adding to the list...I imagine that most Scholarship-based writing rolls would benefit.

Oh sure, ruin a perfectly good bit of wiseassery.
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Offline ALurker

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2011, 11:26:24 AM »
Shield Of Faith: Your faith protects you from harm, repelling those evil beings that cannot tolerate its power. You may use your Conviction skill instead of your Athletics skill to defend against attacks from characters that have catches related to faith.
This is written so that it defends against ranged attacks as well and that makes no sense.
People seem to have missed my last post.

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2011, 02:55:54 PM »
People seem to have missed my last post.

I didn't miss it. I happen to agree with it but I don't do "me2" or "This" posts because they're a waste of everyone's time. 

Personally, I think that while in theory you might be able to use any skill to defend, in practice it gets pretty ridiculous for some skills.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #131 on: November 05, 2011, 11:56:13 PM »
Didn't miss it either. See reply #118.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #132 on: November 06, 2011, 02:11:44 AM »
Next, some more purple stunts. Also, some stunts that should have been purple.

Friends Everywhere: Your network of contacts extends around the world. You never receive a penalty to your contacts skill due to an unfamiliar area.

can be overpowered and absurd in certain special circumstances, so it becomes:

Friends Everywhere: Your network of contacts extends around the world. You may ignore up to two points worth of penalties to your Contacts skill due to an unfamiliar area.

My Buddy Has One Of Those: Your friends are very willing to let you borrow whatever you need. You may use Contacts instead of Resources for equipment purchases.  Anything acquired this way comes with the aspect "Not Actually Mine."

should have the same wording as Five-Fingered Discount, and so becomes:

My Buddy Has One Of Those: Your friends are very willing to let you borrow whatever you need. You may use your Contacts skill instead of your Resources skill to “buy” things. Everything “bought” this way has the aspect “Not Actually Mine”. The difficulty of an attempt to “buy” something with Contacts may or may not be the same as the difficulty of an attempt to buy that same thing with Resources, at the GM's discretion. The time required may also vary.

Sanction: Your faith in your boss, be it the archangel Uriel or Colonel Carrington, is absolute. Pick a being. Add one to your Conviction skill when acting on behalf of that being.

is hated by me for reasons I cannot fully articulate. I'm not sure why, but I'm pretty sure that it's awful in some way even if the magic thing is fixed. So it gets rewritten and becomes:

Sanction: Your faith in your boss, be it the archangel Uriel or Colonel Carrington, is absolute. Pick a being. You may take two additional mild social or mental consequences against attempts to make you think or act against that being.

Stubborn Faith:  You cling to your beliefs with amazing determination. You may take two additional mild consequences against attempts to make you act against your faith.

needs to be slightly less broad, and so becomes:

Stubborn Faith:  You cling to your beliefs with amazing determination. You may take two additional minor consequences against attempts to make you act directly against the principles of your faith.

Religious Contacts: You are well loved for your piety. You may use your Conviction skill instead of your Contacts skill when dealing with people who share your religion.

is too broad, and so becomes:

Religious Contacts: You are well loved for your piety. You may use your Conviction skill instead of your Contacts skill when dealing with people who have centred their lives around the same religion as you.

Shield Of Dogma: Words are meaningless against your fanatical will. You may use your Conviction skill to defend in social combat.

is supposed to use Rapport defence as a basis, and so becomes:

Shield Of Dogma: Words are meaningless against your fanatical will. You may use your Conviction skill for the social defence trapping of Rapport.

Righteous: You are nearly unstoppable when you’re doing what’s right. Your Conviction skill is treated as if it were two points higher when determining whether it is high enough to complement another skill with the Righteousness power.
Strength In The Most Desperate Hour: Your faith is always strongest in times of desperate need. When using the Desperate Hour trapping of the Righteousness power, your attack with Conviction is weapon: 2.

are both a touch weak. The first is almost entirely inferior to the standard Fantastic modification stunts, while the second is just lame. So I'm rolling them together. They become:

Righteous: You are nearly unstoppable when you’re doing what’s right. Add two to your Conviction skill when using it with your Righteousness power.

Sermonize: Your speeches are more about passion than presentation. You may use Conviction, unmodified by Performance, to speak publicly or to convince someone on a point of morality.

has a totally gratuitous clause about Performance and an unclear effect and so becomes:

Sermonize: Your speeches are more about passion than presentation. Add a Sermonize trapping to your Conviction skill. This trapping can be used to speak about moral, ethical, and religious issues.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 01:23:52 AM by Sanctaphrax »

Offline The Mighty Buzzard

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #133 on: November 06, 2011, 07:52:14 AM »
Sanction:  I'm actually ok with the original version.  If it bugs you that it affects Powers, add a qualification that it does not function for Powers or limit it to one particular power like in Righteous.

The rest look fine.
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Offline ALurker

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Re: Cleaning Up The Stunt List
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2011, 01:01:00 PM »
Why should Shield Of Faith be limited to melee range? If your faith repels certain creatures within arm's reach, it can probably repel them from 10 feet away too. Or so goes my reasoning.
Not according to the masquerade scene in Grave Peril, the repelling power of Michael's faith was basically limited to melee range when it came to driving creatures back, more than that and they just tended to shy away and beyond a certain point were not effected at all (otherwise the whole ballroom would have basically ground to a halt). Furthermore, faith being able to stop a bullet fired at say a 100 feet away is completely ridiculous.