Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It

[DFJunkie]

I've been thinking of instituting something like this for characters like Liches from D&D or the Ten Who Were Taken from the Black Company novels: characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.

Cost would be 8.  It would have a stacked catch, just like physical immunity, but the catch would also consider the means by which the character "recovers" from being Taken Out.  I am thinking that, should the character recover automatically that will be +0 (eg. a Lich or one of the Immortals from Highlander), a creature who requires outside effort to recover would get a +2 price break.

So, for those who are familiar with the Black Company, the Dominator (an immortal magical tyrant, not a sports drink) would pay 6 points because it protects him from everything (+0), theoretically invocation of his name would bypass his protection, and since anyone could invoke it that's worth +2, but since no one in the world knows his name and it may have been completely wiped out of existence he gets +0, also he recovers on his own.

Conversely, Ducan MacLeod would pay either 4 or 5, because anyone can get a hold of a chopping implement (+2) plenty of people seem aware of Immortals ability to recover from any wound save decapitation, so that's either +1 or +2, and he gets better without any outside intervention, so +0 there.

Thoughts?

[Sanctaphrax]

Seems like rather a high price, given that this power does nothing unless you get taken out. I think that Living Dead is a better comparison than Physical Immunity.

[devonapple]

Heck, Wizard's Constitution helps you get over most everything, given time.

[Tedronai]

I'm assuming it also includes (upgraded) versions of the trappings of Mythic Recovery, in which case, it's probably in the right ballpark.
Perhaps 1/scene recover a moderate physical consequence, 2/scene recover a minor physical consequence, instead of the bland, predictable 4/scene minor physical consequence.
And, of course, explicitly allow the recovery of extreme physical consequences by the end of the scene.

[devonapple]

And, of course, explicitly allow the recovery of extreme physical consequences by the end of the scene.

I get the impression Extreme Consequences are sacrosanct and need to generally be outside of any supernatural recovery mechanism.

[Tedronai]

To put this power in the same range as Physical Immunity, which obviates the need to take such consequences in the first place, this power really does need to be able to allow their near-immediate recovery.

[computerking]

I had suggested a power that allowed you to heal all non-extreme physical consequences for a fate point once a scene, but at the cost of filling your Mental and Physical stress tracks, but I think the version I made should cost less than the 8 I had suggested for it. (Perhaps -6)

[ARedthorn]

Couldn't you just put it on the sheet as Physical Immunity and change the flavor? Keep the rules, but describe it as instant healing instead of ignored damage.

[sinker]

I think the concept is better served by some form of recovery. I mean, I'm not sure about some of the other examples, but the immortals from highlander took wounds (and were hindered by those wounds) like anyone else. Now that I'm thinking about it maybe even recovery is poor for that example. They didn't seem to heal much faster either. It was just one of those if they died, they woke up perfectly healed later.

I think I'm with Sanctaphrax and Devonapple on this one. It seems like it's own sort of "Can't die from a take out unless the catch is met" sort of thing.

[devonapple]

I think the concept is better served by some form of recovery. I mean, I'm not sure about some of the other examples, but the immortals from highlander took wounds (and were hindered by those wounds) like anyone else.

And the Kurgen had a scar across his neck which he bore to his dying day. Whether that is a Consequence or not can be debated.

I had suggested a power that allowed you to heal all non-extreme physical consequences for a fate point once a scene, but at the cost of filling your Mental and Physical stress tracks, but I think the version I made should cost less than the 8 I had suggested for it. (Perhaps -6)

Filling up Stress Tracks is certainly a risk in the middle of a Scene, but Stress is otherwise an incredibly cheap resource, and I fear that such a power is too open for abuse.

[EldritchFire]

I've been thinking of instituting something like this for characters like Liches from D&D or the Ten Who Were Taken from the Black Company novels: characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.

Cost would be 8.  It would have a stacked catch, just like physical immunity, but the catch would also consider the means by which the character "recovers" from being Taken Out.  I am thinking that, should the character recover automatically that will be +0 (eg. a Lich or one of the Immortals from Highlander), a creature who requires outside effort to recover would get a +2 price break.

So, for those who are familiar with the Black Company, the Dominator (an immortal magical tyrant, not a sports drink) would pay 6 points because it protects him from everything (+0), theoretically invocation of his name would bypass his protection, and since anyone could invoke it that's worth +2, but since no one in the world knows his name and it may have been completely wiped out of existence he gets +0, also he recovers on his own.

Conversely, Ducan MacLeod would pay either 4 or 5, because anyone can get a hold of a chopping implement (+2) plenty of people seem aware of Immortals ability to recover from any wound save decapitation, so that's either +1 or +2, and he gets better without any outside intervention, so +0 there.

Thoughts?

To me, this sounds more like the negotiating being taken out. You said it yourself, not any more resistant to stress. Take an aspect to give you some bargaining room, and call it a day.

Heck, it could be part of your concession: after you take a consequence, concede and say you're left for dead. As I said above, have an aspect you can invoke to help sell it when needed.

Just my [-2].

-EF

[Silverblaze]

Why not just reflavor Physical Immunity to regenerate damage that fast?

[Haru]

Seems like rather a high price, given that this power does nothing unless you get taken out. I think that Living Dead is a better comparison than Physical Immunity.

I think so too, especially since Liches are already undead, so it would fit perfectly. And Mystic Recovery lets you recover from pretty much anything else.

characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.

from Living dead:

Death is a Nuisance. Unless wholly destroyed
or killed by special means, you’re already
dead, and that doesn’t seem to have fazed
you much. No “death” result is ever permanent
unless special means are used (usually as
determined by your creature type).

Isn't that exactly what you want? Insert whatever means you have in mind for killing the Liches permanently and you're good to go.

[Tedronai]

Then the question becomes the appropriate cost of that trapping's effects when divorced from the others and the fluff of being undead (so as to make the effect available to living types).

[Richard_Chilton]

The wizards of the Black Company series are very different from the ones in Dresden.
Spoilers for The Black Company:

(click to show/hide)

Even a minor wizard like Tom-Tom was able to resist death far longer than a normal person would.  It didn't help him (since Croaker didn't know how to repair the damage) but he lingered.  As for Limper, he sometimes left parts of himself behind and he never fully recovered from those injuries.  Hanged Man had that broken neck and another one (I want to say Bone Cruncher) had that scar from a blow that almost killed him.  Most of the male Taken also looked as if they had spent centuries buried alive because they didn't see the need to use magic to fix their looks.
And when the Taken fought Taken (or powerful members of the Circle) they died - which is why so many of them faked their deaths (not wanting to meet an equal and maybe die).

Maybe the best way of handling people like that is kind of a reverse Death Curse.  Say that when they are near death they instinctively use their powers to heal themselves, or at least preserve themselves.  Not so that they can keep fighting but so they can survive.  Yes, that is a bit self centred, but none of the Taken struck me as beings that would die for a cause.

It would need to be cast unconsciously, maybe...
Sponsored Magic: The WILL to Survive
When faced with death you can cast Thaumaturgy, incurring debts, to keep yourself alive.  Not alive and functioning and maybe not even alive and well.  Indeed, you'll be in such bad shape that odds are others will think you're dead (i.e. Taken Out with fatal consequences).  It will take you a long time to recover fully - every debt taken to survive adds X time to your recovery - but you will be back because you Refuse To Accept Death.

And you could flesh out this power - say that using it allows the person to take extra consequences that will take longer than normal to buy off.  Say upping the recovery time to the level above what it normal takes (mild recovers as moderate, etc) or something like.

Call it a -1 refresh power because it's useful but only in a very limited set of circumstances (i.e. when you're being defeated) and say that you can only take it if you have both Evocation and Thaumaturgy.  Heck, you might want to restrict it to those who have at least the starting Wizard 'musts' because lesser talents lack the ability to dig this deep when needed.


Green Ronin did a D20 type game based on the Black Company setting and you might want to mine that for inspiration on Taken level wizards.

Richard