Taking yourself out

[UmbraLux]

It's a spell and no different from other spells in effects - you'd get whatever defense was appropriate to the trappings and situation. 

[zenten]

OK, so that means while your control roll may not be relevant, your targetting roll most certainly is.

[UmbraLux]

Perhaps...since it's thaumaturgy and not evocation it will really depend on the spell trappings. 

[computerking]

And since the person killing you is usually right there, they count as the best symbolic link ever...

[UmbraLux]

That would be a good one, though I might require a targeting roll if sight is the only link.  The one time I've used a death curse in game, she had "In Johan's Grasp" and "Bleeding all Over Johan" as links in addition to sight. 

[Richard_Chilton]

You don't have to go after the person killing you - and he doesn't have to be right there...

For example, the White King wasn't there when he got hit - but then again that sounds like a normal spell that was being done, only to be "rushed" when Harry's mother added the shifts from her Death Curse to finish it.

Richard

[UmbraLux]

Agreed, you just need symbolic links.  "I See You" may be one...but sight certainly isn't a requirement. 

It simply worked out that they were in the same location in play...I hadn't actually planned on the PCs killing her and the death curse was a quick addition.  Not the best curse since she (and I) hadn't planned for it.  But it gives me an interesting aspect to compel. 

[sinker]

OK, so that means while your control roll may not be relevant, your targetting roll most certainly is.

Thaumaturgy doesn't have a targeting roll (since it's usually made up of many smaller control rolls), just the shifts of the spell. If someone defends then it's against a target number determined by how many shifts you devoted to the target number.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

In other words, defend away but you're probably defending against a 30+.

[sinker]

I don't think you need to roll against shifts devoted to duration or increased targets. That still could mean a ton of shifts, but perhaps slightly less so.

[Watson]

Isn't there some sort of resistance roll for death curses though?

Yes, you are normally allowed a defense roll, but that is normally taken care of during the creation of the spell. Reading the examples on the book, it states that, for instance, that the spell has a starting complexity of 10, to take into account a defense value of Great plus a roll of +4.

[UmbraLux]

I don't think you need to roll against shifts devoted to duration or increased targets. That still could mean a ton of shifts, but perhaps slightly less so.

Right, you need to defend against the shifts devoted to the primary effect(s).  You won't need to defend against shifts devoted to duration or other non-effect shifts (possibly triggers, zones, or a variety of other ways to split thaumaturgy). 

However, as TMB and Watson point out, shifts devoted to primary effect may (should) be arbitrarily high.  The only death curse I've used in game play devoted 13 shifts to the primary effect and 9 to duration.

[zenten]

Um, a number of my PCs beat 13 shifts on a regular basis for defense rolls.

[UmbraLux]

Um, a number of my PCs beat 13 shifts on a regular basis for defense rolls.

It's certainly possible - though if they're doing it on a regular basis they must have a fair amount of fate saved up.  Fate tends to get spent during combat in my games.     You'll simply need to account for any fate they have when assigning shifts to the effect.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

It's certainly possible - though if they're doing it on a regular basis they must have a fair amount of fate saved up.  Fate tends to get spent during combat in my games.     You'll simply need to account for any fate they have when assigning shifts to the effect.

It's usually going to be better to pick something that is permanent/instant by the nature of the spell for a DC.  I mean you're already going the "I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." route, so why lessen that by pulling shifts from power to duration?