Author Topic: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)  (Read 32867 times)

Offline Salacia

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A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« on: September 13, 2011, 07:22:23 PM »
So. Your name is Lasciel. You’re a fallen angel imprisoned in a blackened denarius. You’ve just learned that the Harry Dresden has outsmarted your mental construct. You’ve lost face with your fellow evil cohorts, and Hell hath no fury like a Fallen scorned. What do you do next? Why, you make the wizard as miserable as possible, and then you kill him. How does one accomplish that? Here’s my theory.

I’d like to make the case that Lasciel has been whispering thoughts into Harry’s head since Turn Coat. Harry’s reliability as a narrator sometimes comes into question, but his narration style doesn’t change. Up until Turn Coat, I can find no instances where his inner monologue includes an unnamed voice whispering in his head. Yes, Lasciel’s coin whispered to Harry at the end of Death Masks, Lash had mental conversations with Harry, and the Merlin gave psychic instructions to everyone at the end of TC, but in each of those instances, Harry is consciously aware that his thoughts aren’t his own. 

I believe it’s possible for something to be inside Harry’s head undetected. Molly got a good look around in there in SmF, but since then, her experience has been limited to penetrating Harry’s defenses and doing a Darth Vader impression. And at the end of TC, Harry mentions all of the younger wardens getting brain checks, but never mentions that he himself is examined.

I don’t know how Lasciel got into Harry’s head, but I’m guessing that the process was painful for Harry and gave him migraines. The migraines have disappeared by the end of TC, which is after Harry has heard the voice for the first time. Harry and Bob are discussing what shagnasty did with Thomas during TC.

Quote
“He’s alive,” I said quietly. “Or at least I’m going to proceed on that assumption.
Bob somehow managed to look baffled. “Why?”
Because you need your brother to be all right, whispered a quiet voice in my head. “Because anything else isn’t particularly useful in resolving this situation,” I said aloud.


And the voice causes Harry momentary despair.

Then there are four separate instances of a voice whispering in Harry’s head during Changes, not including the one that Molly erased. The first time happens when Harry is going after the RC vamps in his office, right before he decided to forgo steath mode and attack the vamps.

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And why, exactly, a voice somewhere within the storm in my chest whispered, should I be hiding from these murdering scum in the first place?


This could be amusing for Lasciel. Will this idiot act on what I say? Why yes, he will. Muahahahahaha.

In the second instance, Harry is running out of options and contemplating possibilities. Option one, get friends killed trying to save Maggie. Option two, do a smash and grab against the whole RC. Option three, become a tardbeast.

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But Maggie might survive it. If I did it right—only to be orphaned again, in one way or another.
I felt so tired.
Maybe there isn’t a way, whispered a voice in the back of my head.
I snapped the water off and reached for a towel. “Screw that kind of thinking, Dresden,” I ordered myself. “There’s a way. You’ve just got to find it.”


And the voice causes Harry momentary despair.

The next instance isn’t mentioned in Changes, but results in Harry putting a hit on himself. Solid proof that one of the fallen is whispering in Harry’s thoughts. But even if he is going to die, there’s still more misery to be had. When Harry is contemplating becoming the Winter Knight, this happens.

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It was the least evil path, I told myself. Whatever else I might have done would have turned me into a monster in truth. Because of Lloyd Slate, I knew that whatever Mab might say, she did not control her knight completely. Slate had defied her power and influence.
 And look where it got him, a little voice whispered in my head.


And Harry feels despair.

The last instance of voices in his head mentioned in Changes is when Harry is in the Erlking’s domain fighting the Ick and it doesn’t look like the Ick can be defeated.

Quote
It howled and lifted both arms above its head, ready to smash them down on my skull. I didn’t have much time to use my death curse, said the little sane voice in my head. 
And then another voice in my head, one far louder and more furious, screamed denial.  My few glimpses of Maggie whirled through my mind, along with images of her death—or worse—at Arianna’s hands. If I died here, there would be no one to take her out of darkness.
I had to try.

My interpretation of this is that Lasciel sees another opportunity to kill Dresden and takes it. And then Uriel intervenes because Mab wouldn’t be able to get to him if he died in the Erlking’s domain.

So there you have it. Getting into Harry’s head caused the headaches in TC, and Lasciel’s been getting her revenge by steering him towards suicide. 

Significant Replies
Vairelome's support summary  (Reply #63)
Vairelelome's analysis of Lasciel's (possible) "tags"  (Reply #80)  Jim's explenation of "tags"
Tie-in Thread "The Voices in my head" (Reference of all the times a disembodied voice spoke to Harry)
Here is another thread with many parallels
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:24:39 AM by Serack »
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Offline Rogue_Nine

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 07:48:09 PM »
I don't know if I'd say she's in his head, but the picture you paint is fairly compelling.  A quick run through the rest of the series (my check was by no means comprehensive, and I'll bow to anyone who can offer contradictory evidence) reveals no conspicuous mentions of that sort of voice in the books after Lasciel/Lash took up residence in Harry's head.  Given that Jim never does anything accidentally (at least, never admits to doing anything accidentally), I'd say this is worth remembering and keeping an eye out for.
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Offline Paladino

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 07:51:33 PM »
Well the main problem I see with this theorie is that those actions were all Lasciel plan to prepare Harry for the suicide would allow Uriel more counter-balance than only the seven words.. And he speaks nothing of it...

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 08:12:24 PM »
Well the main problem I see with this theorie is that those actions were all Lasciel plan to prepare Harry for the suicide would allow Uriel more counter-balance than only the seven words.. And he speaks nothing of it...

I see no reason to suspect Uriel would tell Harry if he had more intervention planned.
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Offline Rogue_Nine

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 08:24:03 PM »
Neurovore is right there.  Uriel and Harry are operating on different planes of existence.  It's like that conversation in Flatland when a two dimensional shape is speaking to a three dimensional solid.  Harry can't comprehend what's going on with Uriel, because his brain isn't set up to do so.  Plus, Uriel is as close as Jim can get to actually being in the books himself, and we all know how Jim delights in not telling us things.
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Offline Paladino

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 08:30:49 PM »
I see no reason to suspect Uriel would tell Harry if he had more intervention planned.

Sorry neuro, but in your view of Uriel you see no reason for him to do anything and everything according to some master plan he hides from everyone because in true hes not such a nice guy...

I personally belive that since these Lasciel actions, would be all part of the final whispering with the objective of getting Harry suicide, and that Harry was the object of the cheating and such information would be important to Harry making a fully informed and free decision in the end of GS I feel Uriel as guardian of the mortals free will would feel comppelled to share it.

Offline Rogue_Nine

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 08:57:37 PM »
Not necessarily.  The only reason Harry got a tour of his loved ones is because he backed Uriel into a corner (as much as he could) and demanded it.  Before that, Uriel was already pushing him to go ahead and make a decision.  There's nothing in the text or in a WOJ that I can personally bring to mind that tells us Uriel has, is, or ever will act with Harry's best interests at heart.  Harry is one human being; a rather important one, true, but still only one guy.  Uriel's tasks and responsibilities extend to....Well, basically everywhere, as an archangel.  So Heaven's Spook wouldn't have any particular reason to feel compelled to tell Harry anything just because.
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Offline contraducktory

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 09:19:58 PM »
Not necessarily.  The only reason Harry got a tour of his loved ones is because he backed Uriel into a corner (as much as he could) and demanded it.  Before that, Uriel was already pushing him to go ahead and make a decision. 

Uriel could still have said no, to this, but being a 'good guy' decided that it didn't hurt anything.  But, if Lash/Lasciel, did need more balancing, this could have been part of that as well.

Quote
There's nothing in the text or in a WOJ that I can personally bring to mind that tells us Uriel has, is, or ever will act with Harry's best interests at heart.  Harry is one human being; a rather important one, true, but still only one guy. 

I expect that Uriel will act with Harry's best interest at heart, when it serves his plan(s).  Soulfire for instance, yes that helps Harry, but when the long game plays out, I bet it helps Uriel more.

Quote
Uriel's tasks and responsibilities extend to....Well, basically everywhere, as an archangel.  So Heaven's Spook wouldn't have any particular reason to feel compelled to tell Harry anything just because.

None of the 'major players', read that as Sidhe Queens, Jim, Angels, Fallen, Jim, Odin, Senior Council, did I mention Jim?, give any knowledge away for free.  Knowledge is power, the more Harry has, the more powerful he becomes.

---------------------------------------------------------------

The only Fallen that we know to operate as a shadow is Anduriel, and I could see him and Nicodemus wanting to get Harry out of the picture.

 Yes Lasciel's story isn't done per WoJ.  My bet is that Lash was the 'Inez construct' that was seen in Graceland, and that we haven't seen Lasciels nicklehead yet.
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Offline Barzai

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 10:19:49 PM »
Well the main problem I see with this theorie is that those actions were all Lasciel plan to prepare Harry for the suicide would allow Uriel more counter-balance than only the seven words.. And he speaks nothing of it...

Well, in only one of those cases does Harry listen to the voice and act differently because of it.  He ignores the voice about Thomas, even if it saddens him, and going in to slaughter rampires is hardly against his style (and he still veiled himself in silence on the stairs).  He basically tells the voice to shut up in the shower, and then doesn't throw his death curse at the Ick (I see the other voice there as Id Harry more than Uriel, but ymmv).

I like this idea - those little voice mentions had been bothering me, but I hadn't come up with a good explanation.  Thank you, Salacia!

Offline Salacia

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 10:36:26 PM »
I think only the times that resulted in a loss of Harry's free will actually matter as far as retaliation goes for Uriel.

On another note, I'm pretty sure that Uriel wanted Harry to die, considering that Uriel has intellectus and he spoke to Harry after the incident in the church occurred. If he could look at Harry and know about his daughter, he would have known that  Harry was going to commit suicide too. He just decided to save his seven words for later. Uriel is like Jim, he gets to torture Harry for the supposed benefit of others.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 10:51:30 PM »
I got the impression that the only voice speaking to Harry's head from the coin is the Lash imprint.  Lash's imprint couldn't directly talk to Harry until he first started wielding hellfire consciously.  Prior to that, there wasn't any direct contact.   Lasciel never communicated directly with Harry.

I agree the headaches are suspicious, as are the memory lapses, but the headaches can be explained as his brain healing in the section that got burned out by Lash's sacrifice in WN.

I think that the shadow whispering to Harry in the church in GS is from Nick's coin, which we know A) appears in the form of a shadow, B) has motivation for revenge due to Harry's attack on Nick in TC, and C) his contact with Harry would be against the rules, since he hasn't taken up that coin, and therefore has no right to communicate or influence him, therefore allowing Uriel to act as well.

As for multiple, ongoing illegal influences allowing Uriel free reign to act beyond what he did in Changes, I doubt that the Fallen are unaware of his restrictions.  They probably play by the rules more to keep the good guys from wielding more power rather than any limitation they put on themselves.

Offline Vairelome

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 01:02:18 AM »
I think only the times that resulted in a loss of Harry's free will actually matter as far as retaliation goes for Uriel.

I'd actually go a bit farther than that.  I think Uriel will only do the intervention/retaliation/balance thing when the free-will-compromising action on the part of the Fallen results in a "forced choice" that directly causes the death of the person compromised.

I don't have the precise text in front of me, but Harry questions Uriel directly on this point, with regard to the truly horrific things the naagloshi did to Thomas.  Harry thinks this is a pretty damn direct analogy, since a powerful supernatural force brutalized Thomas into despair and embracing the monster.  Uriel's response is that Harry's mostly right, but the naagloshi's actions that compromised Thomas' free will did not result in Thomas' death, so he was not permitted to balance the act.

Also, I think you did a really solid job at laying out this theory.  I think the second voice in the Ick incident might not be Uriel, but other than that, I find it very persuasive.  :)

Offline Monkez

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 05:32:21 AM »
A very well thought out theory.  I'm impressed.  Kudos!  As I re-read the series, I'll look out for other "whispers".

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Offline santiago

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 06:21:50 AM »
This is a well-thought out theory. I've never considered the headaches other than fallout from Lash taking the psychic bullet, but maybe I should reconsider... Things to think about then re-reading the series.
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Offline pobabylon

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Re: A Fallen scorned (GS spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 09:34:11 AM »
I'm almost positive i've read theories on this board before about the headaches being harry's mind healing itself over time (in similar fashion to how his hand is slowly healing itself beyond normal human limits)

and that, as his mind heals itself, so to might lash be able to be returned (reborn?) in his mind.

iirc, at the end of death masks before harry buried the coin he was hearing whispering and a voice.. i don't think that was lash, i think that was the full fallen angel lasciel... only now, harry no longer has the coin sealed away in his basement.