Noob Questions

[The Mighty Buzzard]

And of course counterspelling is the only practical countermeasure against some magical effects.

Yep, like Orbius on one of your friends' faces.  Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Sanctaphrax]

I was very tempted to derail this thread with a reply to that.

[polkaneverdies]

I admire your restraint Sancta. I know that anybody mentioning that spell is nearly enough to make you froth at the mouth and stab things. ;p

[The Mighty Buzzard]

And therein lies the fun.

[computerking]

New Question: Can a Ward be placed somewhere without a threshold, and what would be needed to do that?
Could it be done using an Enchanted Item?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

New Question: Can a Ward be placed somewhere without a threshold, and what would be needed to do that?
Could it be done using an Enchanted Item?

Yes.  It's specifically mentioned that The Merlin did it while fighting the rampires.  YW277 says it limits their size to a doorway/intersection worth of warding.

It's thaumaturgy, so whatever sounds good.

Technically, yes.  It won't be much of a ward though and it would always be the exact same ward.

[zenten]

Yes.  It's specifically mentioned that The Merlin did it while fighting the rampires.  YW277 says it limits their size to a doorway/intersection worth of warding.

It's thaumaturgy, so whatever sounds good.

Technically, yes.  It won't be much of a ward though and it would always be the exact same ward.

As a house rule I'd allow the size to grow at a cost of 2 complexity per zone.  It would be very costly to make something the same size as a regular house, but it could be done.

[sinker]

I usually say that a ward doesn't need a threshold but it does need a boundary. All of those things that Dresden talks about that we define as cutting off this thing from that thing. A fence, a river, a doorway, a street, etc.

That's just kinda my feeling on the matter though, I'm pretty sure RAW mentions a threshold. Keep in mind though that a threshold of 0 is still a threshold (so businesses, abandoned buildings, etc should be ok).

[Sanctaphrax]

Your Story, page 277:

"Without a threshold they can only be set up to cover a small area at most - usually a point of transition such as a doorway or intersection."

The Merlin might merit some sort of power based off of Sponsored Magic, allowing Wards at Evocation speed without thresholds. Or perhaps the situation provided a natural chokepoint and a few minutes to cast a ritual. I dunno.

[UmbraLux]

I usually say that a ward doesn't need a threshold but it does need a boundary. All of those things that Dresden talks about that we define as cutting off this thing from that thing. A fence, a river, a doorway, a street, etc.

That's just kinda my feeling on the matter though, I'm pretty sure RAW mentions a threshold. Keep in mind though that a threshold of 0 is still a threshold (so businesses, abandoned buildings, etc should be ok).

Boundaries are thresholds.  "In the broadest sense, the term "threshold" may be given to any metaphysical barrier...running water is a prime example...can even be conceptual*..."  YS230

So your feeling on the matters appears to be fully supported by the book. 

*Conceptual thresholds are an interesting case...could you ward one?  Some, like dawn, are undoubtedly too large.  But what of smaller conceptual borders?  Could you ward your property lines instead of your house walls?  What about others?

[sinker]

This got me thinking interesting thoughts. If boundaries are created by people's belief that it's a boundary can you ward conceptual boundaries? Can you ward the "Glass ceiling?" Or one's privacy? How about theological boundaries? Just a weird thought, not actually rules discussion. I have no idea how that would resolve mechanically. Ignore it as you like.

[UmbraLux]

Glad I'm not the only one that sent off on a conceptual tangent. 

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Boundaries are thresholds.  "In the broadest sense, the term "threshold" may be given to any metaphysical barrier...running water is a prime example...can even be conceptual*..."  YS230

So your feeling on the matters appears to be fully supported by the book. 

*Conceptual thresholds are an interesting case...could you ward one?  Some, like dawn, are undoubtedly too large.  But what of smaller conceptual borders?  Could you ward your property lines instead of your house walls?  What about others?

I warded my property line with chain link.  As near as I can tell though, cats are able to completely ignore wards if it suits them to.  Proper cats, mind you, not shapeshifters.

Seriously though, if you put up a fence with the intended purpose of keeping people out... it could absolutely count as a threshold for warding purposes.  Likely +0-2 ranging from picket to multiple rows of 12' electrified topped with razor wire.

[UmbraLux]

Agreed, any barrier should count.  Even a knee high picket fence.  But what about just the property line without a fence?

I wonder a bit if Merlin's ward is best modeled by simply declaring a conceptual (mental) boundary and then using it for the ward.  Granted, I wouldn't think it easy enough for apprentices to get away with it...but it would explain how Merlin was able to set a ward where he did.  Going to have to read that book again...

Oh, and given Mister's easy movements I wonder if all cats can simply walk through wards. 

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Agreed, any barrier should count.  Even a knee high picket fence.  But what about just the property line without a fence?

I wonder a bit if Merlin's ward is best modeled by simply declaring a conceptual (mental) boundary and then using it for the ward.  Granted, I wouldn't think it easy enough for apprentices to get away with it...but it would explain how Merlin was able to set a ward where he did.  Going to have to read that book again...

Oh, and given Mister's easy movements I wonder if all cats can simply walk through wards. 

Harry's said you could make a circle entirely in your head (early in smf to murphy), it's just unnecessarily difficult and less reliable.  I imagine the same thing holds for wards.

Fair chance they can.  I mean if they can fail to see how you being dead is relevant, what's a little magic?