Enchanted Items for Non-Spellcasters...

[Becq]

Just keep in mind that any 'stunt' that provides access to magical power (including potions and the like) is not truly a 'stunt' at all, but is a power, and voids a character's Pure Mortal bonus.  If this were not the case, then Item of Power would be a stunt, and wouldn't cost the Pure Mortal bonus.  (Sanctaphrax and I disagree on this.)

All of this assumes a permanent use of something from the spooky side.  Just borrowing something (ie, drinking a potion provided by a wizard) is fine, even for a Pure Mortal.

[Sanctaphrax]

But the stunt I recommend does not actually give permanent access to anything. It just lets you borrow from NPCs on a case-by-case basis.

PS: I actually agree with you about that. What I disagree with you about is whether a mortal stunt can boost things that have to do with supernatural powers. Stuff like +2 Craftsmanship while The Sight is open.

[gojj]

But the stunt I recommend does not actually give permanent access to anything. It just lets you borrow from NPCs on a case-by-case basis.

PS: I actually agree with you about that. What I disagree with you about is whether a mortal stunt can boost things that have to do with supernatural powers. Stuff like +2 Craftsmanship while The Sight is open.

So you are not suggesting a stunt that lets the player (assuming they made whatever difficulty role the GM sets) have an enchanted item that recharges with each new session like a normal enchanted item, but instead allows the character to borrow the item for a set amount of time, most likely included in the difficulty role, and once that time has expired, or the enchanted item is used up, the player must then make a new role for a new item. And they can carry as many items at once as the stunt allows. Is that all correct?

[Sanctaphrax]

Yep.

The user could theoretically get an infinite number of infinitely powerful items if they had infinite skills. Fortunately, they don't.

[gojj]

Ah, I see. At first I thought you were suggesting something like the stunt in your first link. Hm, interesting. I would then agree with you that this can be done while retaining the two refresh bonus, provided that the items are difficult enough to require. Now "difficult enough" could be another thread altogether and I am nowhere near qualified enough to be throwing around concrete numbers, but if the players and their GM all agree on a scale and all think it is fair then I see no problem with it. And as was suggested earlier the supplier might call upon the player for some favors in return for all the magical goodies he/she has provided.

I thought you were suggesting that if a player rolled well and threw in a couple fate points and they got something like a ring with a weapon: 8 blast that can be used three times each game, they would have that at the start of each and every game thereafter.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Since I wrote the linked stunts, let me explain how I got to them:

I figured the pure mortal bonus was +2.  Anything I did should mitigate that bonus if it allowed a pure mortal access to magic (even just regular chances to use potions).  I pointed out examples in the books of pure mortals using magic items here and there.

So, I had a stunt.  This cost 1 refresh (halfway there).  I made it a stunt and not a power because I saw it as adding a trapping to a skill.  This was a pretty powerful trapping, so it cost a fate point to use each time.  Effectively, they lost access to two fate points by accessing a single magic item.  Thus, I felt the pure mortal bonus was mitigated.  Cool.  Balance.

I've gone back and forth about having the strength of the item be equal to Resources-2 or just Resources.  Finally, I decided that Resources was balanced (after some playtesting). 

[easl]

Another option: tell the players that you'll go with whatever solution they want - costs nothing, costs FP, costs refresh, whatever - but that they should keep in mind that the bad guys will have the same access they do.  So unless they want every mook in existence coming at them armed with flame wands and enchanted bullet-repelling bracelets, they should think seriously about the 'free' option.

[Becq]

I think the stunt is way, way too versatile.  Say a character had the two trinket stunts (Collector of Arcane Goods and Arcane Connoisseur) and Resources 5.  This would allow them to any of the following once per scene, for the cost of a Fate point:

* gain an automatic result of 7 on any one roll (even for unknown skills)
* gain a ranged attack at weapon:7, or a zone attack at weapon:5
* gain 3 armor, useable at will twice during the scene
* gain a block 6, useable at will twice during the scene
* cancel out any ongoing spell with a strength no more than 7

Obviously, this is only a small sampling of what could be done, there really aren't any limits.  And it can be used for any of those benefits, with no preparation.  And even after getting these stunts, a Pure Mortal would still have as many refresh left to spend on stunts (or to save) as any supernatural creature starts with.  What other two stunts come close to this?

At a minimum, I'd rewrite the stunt along these lines:

Where does he get those wonderful toys? [-1]
By spending a the equivalent of a scene worth of time to contact your magical fixer, you may obtain a specific potion or other single-use magical trinket.  It's strength is equal to your Resources skill.  Each time you do this, you gain a favor owed to your sponsor (up to a maximum number equal to your Persuasion); each favor represents a compel that the sponsor can call upon, granting you no Fate for accepting.  If you refuse a favor, you lose this stunt (and will be unlikely to find another sponsor willing to grant such favors in the future).

[Richard_Chilton]

I don't think a Pure Mortal would be able to use Enchanted Items, they wouldn't know how. I haven't read all of the Dresden books yet so if there is an example of a Pure Mortal using one than I shall stand corrected,

Book one - A bunch of mortals were drinking down Third Eye potions.  Also, Dresden gave a potion to Susan and she took it on her own (alas, it was the lust one).
Book three - no, she was a minor talent, but Dresden wasn't sure she was when he lent her his ghost talisman.
Book 5 (I think it was book five) Dresden lent his duster to one of the Church Mice.
Even Hand -

(click to show/hide)

Marcone used things that were too low level to be IoP

The Warrior - I don't think that the protagonist had any Faith powers, so he would have been a Pure Mortal and was able to use that minor device.

Or to put it another, just because Dresden doesn't usually cook up enchanted items that others can use doesn't mean that it can't be done - in the books.  In the game, there's a rule for "usable by someone else" and I can't see why a Pure Mortal couldn't use an item like that.

Richard

[Vairelome]

If you refuse a favor, you lose this stunt (and will be unlikely to find another sponsor willing to grant such favors in the future).

I really, really dislike this caveat.  Sponsor debt on steroids is overkill for balancing a mortal stunt, and the limitation on PC decision-making is a good deal more strict than I'd be comfortable with at my table.

Edit: Grammar.

[ARedthorn]

In my case, the item was an armored jacket, that the wizard wanted to provide him... But the wizard didn't have any refresh to spare for another refinement, and the refinement she had was tied up in enhancements.
He was a true faith build, so no issues with being a pure mortal, systems-wise. He was also the only one at the table with refesh to spare, and since he was going to be using the jacket full-time, they asked me if he could pay refresh for it instead.
Option 1: he takes a point of refinement that he funded on his lore of 1 (total item value 4, Armor:1 for 5 uses only by him)... He'd be better off with a concealable vest.
Option 2: she pays a point of refresh she doesn't have (or he pays 2 refresh so he can stunt a better lore trapping off another skill) and ends up with a lore 5 item (total value 8, which is Armor:3 usable 5 times by himself only, or 3 times by anyone). Not worth it either way (wiz becomes unplayable or he spent 2 refresh for it).
Option 3: he pays 1 refresh on her behalf somehow; benefitting from her Lore somehow despite it being his refresh and his item... Same as option 2, nut with shortcuts that left me uneasy.
Option 4: IoP inhuman toughness, with it being story fluff that it's an enchanted item from her. The Catch was that it didn't protect his face or legs (hoodie), so  anything specifically targetting those would bypass it altogether. 1 refresh, and it has the RAW stamp of approval. The player and I agreed it seemed like our best choice.

I honestly couldn't come up with anything better short of inventing some new house rule without any real idea if it was balanced or not.
Some of what's been tossed around here sounds decent, but nothing strikes me as perfect... Yet.

[Pbartender]

Maintaining them is another matter.

What's there to maintain?  From the descriptions in the book, all of Harry enchanted items either require no maintenance (his duster), or maintain themselves (his force ring recharges itself as he moves his hand, and his shielding bracelet recharges by sucking magic out of the very environment).

Anyway, here's my dilemma in a nutshell...  It not so much that pure mortals are or are not allowed to use enchanted items -- by the rules, they can, and there enough examples in the books to support it.  The question is, A) how can we shift the burden of the fate refresh, etc. from the wizard donating the item to the mortal using the item, B) what should be the total cost to the mortal, and D) how many/how powerful should the items he can carry be?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

What's there to maintain?  From the descriptions in the book, all of Harry enchanted items either require no maintenance (his duster), or maintain themselves (his force ring recharges itself as he moves his hand, and his shielding bracelet recharges by sucking magic out of the very environment).

He's mentioned re-tattooing his duster, maintenance.  His rings require energy be absorbed by say punching a heavy bag, maintenance. Those are the only two enchanted items he uses with any regularity.

His shield bracelet is a focus item, it's not enchanted.  Same with his staff and blasting rod.

[Sanctaphrax]

If you didn't have to maintain items, you could just make as many as you wanted.

I do not think it should be possible to take the refresh burden away from the crafter with a stunt. Wouldn't allow it with Refinement, either. Would allow it with a custom power.

I don't really like Becq and InferrumVeritas's attempts. Too complicated and too reliable. This is one thing that I think is best handled on a case-by-case basis with copious GM discretion.

[Pbartender]

If you didn't have to maintain items, you could just make as many as you wanted.

Put that way, it makes more sense...  It's the available slots that sort of represent the maintenance time and cost.

I do not think it should be possible to take the refresh burden away from the crafter with a stunt. Wouldn't allow it with Refinement, either. Would allow it with a custom power.

Out of curiosity, why not?  Why require a stunt?  Just because of the extra refresh cost of taking away the mortal bonus?

This is one thing that I think is best handled on a case-by-case basis with copious GM discretion.

That might be the best way for me to handle it in the end, but I still want to explore some guidelines for it, just to be a little prepared.