Author Topic: Feet in the Water - What can I build?  (Read 7030 times)

Offline Rechan

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 09:50:06 PM »
Well, what DO you want to do? There are always ways to trim down a high power concept, so it will fit a lower power level. Just give us something to work with.

Well one idea is a WWII soldier who was put on a special mission to close a gate to Hell from the other side, meaning choosing to be sealed in Hell. However he finally escapes. Power-wise, just Inhuman Toughness/Recovery. But that leaves only 2 Refresh, before mortal stunts. And 20 skill level doesn't really reflect "badass soldier before  being trapped in hell" either.

Another was a sort of Debt Collector/Enforcer - a mortal with a knife that's bound to him, part of him - so it's summonable, etc. I even thought perhaps tucking Focused Practitioner (force) as sort of a way to 'cut' things at range, but perhaps FP is a bit extreme for what's a limited focus; I just want to expand on the metaphysical nature of what a knife can do thematically.

Another concept would be a changeling information broker. But again at 20 skill level, that's not very Good. That's the information equivalent of a pickpocket, not a cat-burglar.

I guess my problem is that I want to play something very Supernatural and very Good at what they do. Feet in the Water feels like supernatural pre-teens. Which is the point, I know. I just want to play a badass dealing with big problems, instead of feeling like I have training wheels on.

Part of the issue is I don't have my books with me and am going off memory for costs. I do know I want to avoid Magic (I want to avoid that level of mechanical hijinx my first game).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:20:45 PM by Rechan »

Offline Belial666

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 09:56:59 PM »
There are lots of people with significant power, even at so low a level. Here are a couple concepts;


Cheerleader/Temptress Demon
Your typical demonic cheerleader with the killer dimples, soul-sucking kiss and bulletproof skin. Can wrap any boy around her little finger and it takes a dozen grenades to get rid of her without the power of faith or significant magic. Good if you want a not-so-good character that can both shake it and is decent at combat.
Powers: Incite Lust (lasting, at range), Emotional Vamp, Sn. Toughness (catch True Faith), Feeding Dependency.
Notable Skills: +4 Deceit/Athletics, +3 Presence/Endurance

Captain America (discount version)
Strong, Fast, decent in combat. Bashes people with a big shield and has a big "A" on his forehead. What more could you want?
Powers: Inhuman Speed, Inhuman Strength
Vibranium Shield IoP: weapon 2 and can parry ranged attacks from "it is what it is". True Aim, Returning, +2 parry vs ranged attacks
Notable Skills: +4 Weapons/Athletics, +3 Endurance

Offline wyvern

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 10:07:03 PM »
20 skill points isn't much, true.  But, then again, that depends a lot on how your GM runs with skills.

For an example, my interpretation is that a +1 ("average") means "average for people who make their living off of this skill" - in other words, pretty darned good compared to an ordinary human.  +3 ("good") means that people who do X for a living think that you're *good* at it.  Consider, for example, Murphy as listed in OW.  She's got a fists skill of +3.  In the books, she's described at being good at martial arts - that's the sort of "good" we're talking about.

The mere fact that you, as a PC, default to +0 in all of your skills puts you head and shoulders above most ordinary NPCs around you - and that's before you start spending your skill points at all.

* * * * *

Let's consider the two concepts you've listed, now.  For the WWII soldier - he's been through hell.  Literally.  Who's to say he's as good now as he was before he got stuck in there?  And even if not - even if you just pick up guns and athletics at +4 - that's enough to make him better (notably better!) than, say, your average SWAT team member.  And again, inhuman toughness / recovery is only going to cost you one refresh if you give him a +3 catch; I'd probably add a stunt or two, or perhaps Inhuman Speed.

For the information broker... Contacts +4, Deceit +4.  Stunt: +2 contacts skill when dealing in supernatural secrets.  Power: Glamours.  Done.  Now, within your specialty, your primary skill is Fantastic.  And you've got glamours, which means you can use your deceit skill to set up blocks in physical combat ("Hey, look, I'm over there!"), aspects to tag for social combat ("The Perfect Business Suit"), and generally support whatever else you're doing.

Now, what you can't do at this level is make a character that's exceptional at a lot of different things.  But being really good at one or two things?  Totally doable.

Offline Rechan

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2011, 10:08:33 PM »
Wow Belial, that's impressive. I need to check the power math there. That's a lot in a little package. The combos there is sort of what I was hoping to see when I started the thread.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:14:27 PM by Rechan »

Offline Haru

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 10:18:31 PM »
Well one idea is a WWII soldier who was put on a special mission to close a gate to Hell from the other side, meaning choosing to be sealed in Hell. However he finally escapes. Power-wise, just Inhuman Toughness/Recovery. But that leaves only 2 Refresh, before mortal stunts. And 20 skill level doesn't really reflect "badass soldier before  being trapped in hell" either.
Well, the way he escaped could have kept some of his badassery in hell, giving him a great hook for further stories (something followed the link from the parts left in hell back to him) and a good explanation for where he is getting powers from at a milestone. Regarding Toughness/Recovery, read my previous posting.

Quote
Another was a sort of Debt Collector/Enforcer - a mortal with a knife that's bound to him, part of him - so it's summonable, etc. I even thought perhaps tucking Focused Practitioner (force) as sort of a way to 'cut' things at range, but perhaps FP is a bit extreme for what's a limited focus; I just want to expand on the metaphysical nature of what a knife can do thematically.
A rephrasing of claws or breath weapons might work well for the knife thing, add human form, so it would be hidden whenever you are not using it, and instead of it being part of your body, you summon it, the difference is only in the story, not mechanically.

Quote
Another concept would be a changeling information broker. But again at 20 skill level, that's not very Good. That's the information equivalent of a pickpocket, not a cat-burglar.
Contacts at +4, a stunt that grants +2 on gathering informations in the supernatural world and an aspect to boost if necessary makes +8 on a contacts roll, which is pretty powerful and only costs 1 refresh for the stunt. Glamours and a supernatural sense information gathering thing (like when the KotC know where they are needed, he knows where to get the information he needs), and your changeling information broker is on the way.

Quote
I guess my problem is that I want to play something very Supernatural and very Good at what they do. Feet in the Water feels like supernatural pre-teens. Which is the point, I know. I just want to play a badass dealing with big problems, instead of feeling like I have training wheels on.
Feet in the Water will let you get pretty good at one thing. Not totally super badass, but good enough. You should just focus on 1 thing and not try to be good at everything.
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Offline Rechan

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 10:20:04 PM »
Something I kicked around a while ago was some sort of ex-Toadie to a Supernatural Power. Someone who was suckered in/seduced to being something's pawn, and he got a taste of their power. But someone came along and killed his master, and now he's lost, has a little bit of power (of what, i don't know), and wants to find a new master, someone to give him feel the purpose he used to have. I don't know what to do with that mechanically though.

Quote
For the information broker... Contacts +4, Deceit +4.  Stunt: +2 contacts skill when dealing in supernatural secrets.  Power: Glamours.  Done.  Now, within your specialty, your primary skill is Fantastic.  And you've got glamours, which means you can use your deceit skill to set up blocks in physical combat ("Hey, look, I'm over there!"), aspects to tag for social combat ("The Perfect Business Suit"), and generally support whatever else you're doing.

Now that's what I'm talking about; thank you Wyvern. Although I was hoping to do well at social combat. Can I get by with 3 skills at good for Social conflicts?

The way I'm imagining the soldier's innate toughness/recovery, a catch wouldn't realy be appropriate. It's just adaption after decades in a supernatural environment.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:22:37 PM by Rechan »

Offline ARedthorn

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 10:29:31 PM »
Adaptation to a hell-environment... may mean a weakness to holy. At the very least, he wouldn't be adapted to such, and it would cause a sense of discomfort (like stepping out of a dark room into bright sunlight).... which is pretty exactly what a Catch is about.

Also- 3 strong social skills is plenty to keep you up in social conflict... frankly, I rarely have a player with more than 2.

Offline computerking

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2011, 10:31:31 PM »

The way I'm imagining the soldier's innate toughness/recovery, a catch wouldn't realy be appropriate. It's just adaption after decades in a supernatural environment.

Sounds a lot like the main character from the book Sandman Slim. Except he's way more powerful than Feet in the Water.
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Offline Belial666

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2011, 10:35:52 PM »
Everything has a catch. It can be an unknown catch but exists. For your supernatural soldier, consider to what he adapted and how. Here's what I got. Supernatural toughness (or recovery) because he was generally hardened by his ordeal in Hell but due to its origin it doesn't work vs True Faith. Physical Immunity vs the forces of Hell because nothing less would allow him to survive there.

Quote
[-4] Supernatural Toughness (or recovery)
[+2] True Faith catch
[-8] Physical Immunity
[+5] Stacked Catch: only vs the forces of Hell

Notable skills;
+4 Guns, Athletics
+3 Survival

Now, you could go just plain Mythic Toughness with the Faith catch but IMHO he needs that immunity to survive in Hell.

Offline wyvern

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2011, 10:39:45 PM »
Now that's what I'm talking about; thank you Wyvern. Although I was hoping to do well at social combat. Can I get by with 3 skills at good for Social conflicts?
Well, you've got deceit at +4.  Add in Rapport at +3 (to get good social defenses), and maybe Empathy at +2 and Presence at +1, and you should be pretty much set for social combat.  Against joe schmoe normal person, who has an Empathy of +0 to -2, a two box social stress track, and isn't willing to take consequences, you can probably go straight to a taken out result with a single lie.

For the other half of your skill stack, I'd suggest Burglary (a good compliment to veils), Investigation, and Lore.  You won't be able to do much in a physical fight (aside from vanish, and totally spook your opponents with seemings of grenades, and other such useful supporting actions), but you'll be great at getting in places where you aren't supposed to be, finding out things people don't want you to know, manipulating people, and generally being an insufferable know-it-all - in fact, that sounds like a great aspect to take.  "Wait - you want me to break into this guy's office and rifle through his private files?  Now why would I do that?  I mean, I was just over there making copies last week..."

The way I'm imagining the soldier's innate toughness/recovery, a catch wouldn't realy be appropriate. It's just adaption after decades in a supernatural environment.
There are actually quite a few still-viable options.  For example, if it's fairly obvious to those in the know that you've been touched by infernal powers, a catch of "holy stuff" could be worth +3.  Or +2 if it's not obvious, but still detectable via things like The Sight.

Another catch I've used frequently for people who just plain have that much physical toughness is "stuff that attacks the body by attacking the soul" - which includes Hellfire as well as some uses of soulfire and necromancy.  That'd be worth +2 to +3, depending on how easy it is for people to figure that out.

Poison is another good catch for someone who should normally be pretty durable.

* * * * *
...Ok.  To answer the question you actually asked: if you really want to cram as many Powers as possible into a small refresh footprint, the thing to do is look at the various rebate powers, and fit in as many of them as you can make sense of.  Note that I don't suggest actually doing this - it can get a bit cheesy & overshadow other players - but here's an example:

+2 item of power: Dragonscale Armor.  It is what it is - a suit of full plate armor; armor rating 2.  Also obnoxious to take off or put on; you need assistance if you want to do so quickly.
Grants the following abilities:
-2 Inhuman Toughness (note that this also grants armor: 1, but does not stack with the armor rating from "it is what it is" - as 2 is the better value, you go with that one.  Unless someone's attacking with poison gas or the like, where a mundane suit of plate armor wouldn't help, but toughness still applies.)
-2 Inhuman Recovery (only applies to injuries sustained while wearing the armor)
+3 The Catch: Dragonsbane.  Easily researched, not so easy to come by, but any weapon coated with this herb will bypass your extra stress boxes, and deal wounds that you can't heal.  Plus it can be burned to make poisonous smoke; treat that as a compel against your appropriate aspect.
-2 Inhuman Strength
Further, if you're desperate enough, you can invite the spirit of the original owner of the armor's scales to temporarily possess you:
-1 Beast Change (this transforms you into a quadrupedal lizardy-critter)
+1 Human Form limitation, applying to:
-1 Claws
-1 Demonic Co-Pilot

Total refresh cost?  -3.  Ability to totally dominate physical combat in a feet-in-the-water game?  Yep.  At least until the GM compels you to not have access to the armor... but you've got a refresh of three left to buy off those compels.  Of course, using it at full power is a bit dangerous, thanks to that Demonic Co-Pilot... but such is the price of attacking at fists +5 (& weapon rating 4) in a feet-in-the-water game.  :-P

Offline Rechan

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 12:25:18 AM »
Thanks everyone. I will make the character pitch of the changeling and the toadie to the GM. If he says no to the changeling, I may need assistance with the toadie. But again, thanks.

The discussion of how to cram things mechanically into such a small place is helpful. Also sets the stage for higher level stuff.

I think I'll keep the Soldier in my pocket for a more high-powered game. He's more suited to go ass-kicking monsters anyhow.

Offline Rechan

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2011, 03:06:30 AM »
So here's my character sheet:

Quote
High Concept: Half-Kitsune Information Broker
Trouble: I crave your dirty secrets.

Aspects
Lies are my armor, the truth is my sword.
I shouldn't be here, and yet here I am.

Skills
Contacts       +4
Deceit         +4
Rapport        +3
Burglary       +3
Empathy        +2
Investigations +2
Presence       +1
Lore           +1

Stunts

Glamours [-2]
I Speak Spooky: +2 to Contacts when dealing in supernatural secrets. [-1]

General personality is affable, a lover of Games (see: Cons), only feels secure with blackmail on someone, potentially a pathological liar.

My concern is my aspects. Not a lot of fodder for stuff to come up too much.

The GM is very strict about the 3 other aspects - 1 one from the novel adventure, 2 from the guest-starring. Maybe I should save the "I shouldn't be here" aspect for one of the guest stars.

So far I haven't written my little novel (which I should so ahead of time - my handwriting is atrocious). Any suggested aspects would be great.

Also I think it's going to be tough to upgrade skills easily.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 03:23:00 AM by Rechan »

Offline Delmorian

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2011, 06:14:38 PM »
Not a template, but a wielder of a cool item of power is also a possibility. The item of power grants you +1 or +2 discount on the powers, depending on their size. For example a trinket of "living mercury", that the wielder can shape with his will, creating a shield, a sword, a lasso, anything he can think of, either modelled by "modular abilities" or straight up powers, that can be added to, when you get more refresh.

This idea has inspired me to create a character based on a Extreme Ghost Busters cartoon episode I saw, about the Jersey Devil. The thing was, the demon was trapped in a batch of Iron, and he was trying to gather back up all of the iron of that batch to get free.

I liked the idea of the Mercurial Trinket, and thought that having an pool of "Spirit Iron" to do such trinket item tricks (shapes you think of) and armor would make for a great vigilante character. Maybe a "face" in the pine barrens of NJ. If it was to be a PC, I figure to make him a Scion of the spell caster/black smith that bound the demon into a beast, then, before he could lock the spirit/demon away, the beast got hit by a runaway cart hauling a load of pig iron for his smithy. The spirit got into five of the ingots, and thus escaped the entrapment. The characters touch gave it the ability to offer him powers, but the character doesn't know the origins of the power. (the story of the demon was lost in a fire which took the family bible and records) He could start with a Chain that would be the Mercurial Trinket, and he could find more of the Iron at threshold moments to expand the powers. This could work... but I have not managed to find the mention of Mercurial Trinket in the book. I admit that to date have only had a few hours to read/scan the books, and am still learning, but, could you direct me to any references to the Mercurial Trinket you mentioned? Would be greatly appreciated.
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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2011, 10:23:20 AM »
Some feet in the water concepts:

You can have a one trick pony wizard.
-3 for Evocation +1 power for main element
-1 for refinement +2 power for main element, +1 control

magic item, +2 power for one spell, +2 control for one spell, or 8 power, 7 control for one spell.

Even a more generalist wizards could have 5 power rotes in their main specialty.

A specialist in ritual could easily get enough control so they could reliably pour 1 or 2 power an exchange with no chance of failure.  A specialist in conjuration could do a ritual that "would create enough faux frogs to overrun a city park" for 11 complexity, and that would be easy for them.

Or a basic supernatural thug
super natural strength, speed, toughness and recovery, with a -3 catch for the last two.  Even one level of toughness means 3 more shifts will be required before you have to take a consequence.

You could have a wizard who evokes darkness and has cloak of darkness, and a stunt to give Conviction the stealth trapping.

At 6 refresh, bad ass normals can be quite effective.  A couple of refresh to make their gun or martial arts more effective, and more fate points to spend on things like Killer Blow, and a specialized normal will be very effective within their specialization.

You can make a shapeshifter with Beast change which has access to very different skills.

You could have someone with Psychometry, "Gives lore the investigation trapping", the use Lore for defense power "see 3 seconds into the future" and super speed, and you have the basis for someone with a rather strange relationship with Time.

You could have a Faith based character with Righteousness, Holy Touch, and a custom stunt that allows you to apply that Holy Touch to your weapons, and have a refresh left over to be extra good with either weapons or guns.

Offline sinker

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Re: Feet in the Water - What can I build?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2011, 06:51:21 PM »
This could work... but I have not managed to find the mention of Mercurial Trinket in the book. I admit that to date have only had a few hours to read/scan the books, and am still learning, but, could you direct me to any references to the Mercurial Trinket you mentioned? Would be greatly appreciated.

I think he was referring to the Item of power....power on YS167. It allows you to build an item that essentially grants you the powers attached to it. You still pay the cost in refresh for those powers, minus a slight reduction for your powers not being your own.