Starting Power level

[Watson]

What are your thoughts about the starting Power level in relationship with the number of players in the group? What I mean is that the general opposition that the player characters will be facing is essentially based on the total Power level of all the player characters. I would like not to have a situation where I as a GM will be forced to throw very powerful NPC at the player characters, just to create a balanced level of opposition (at least not initially). I do want some relatively powerful player characters, but not too powerful so that I am forced to throw Denarians at them (or something similar…).

I have four players in my group. This means that if I let the players go with refresh 10 characters, the theoretical power level is 9*4=36. If we instead go for refresh 8 characters, the theoretical power level is 7*4=28, about 25% “less power”. Refresh 8 is also high enough that they can choose among all of the Templates in the book.

Anyone regretting that they did allow the players to choose refresh 10 characters? Am I just over-analyzing the situation, or have anyone out there been thinking the same?

[Guldor]

Maybe you think a little bit too much about it. But this is at least a lot better then not thinking about the powerlevel. My limited experience with the Dresden files rpg shows that it is not so important how big the powerlevel of the characters is, because there is always a bigger fish to challenge them without stretching the universe too much.
In my opinion it is a little bit more interesting how much experience the players of your group have concerning the Dresdenverse and roleplaying in general. If the are unexperienced it might be too much to start with a lot of power right form the beginning of a campaign. They might end up using only part of their abilities "effective" and maybe can´t work as a team to substitute each others weaknesses. 

[Watson]

What I would like is to have kind of a "medium" level, in terms of opposition. The thing is that the opposition needs to be balanced towards the group as a whole - and then the number of players comes in (as a factor, multiplying the refresh level to get the total refresh level of all characters in the group).

General experience with RPG's is not a problem, as most of us have been playing since mid 80's. But DFRPG is different compared to many other RPG's that we have played, in that the characters can (if it is allowed at the time of creating the characters) be very powerful from the start. Thats why I am concerned about choosing the "right" starting level.

[Rubycon]

No experience yet, but we will meet soon to develop some characters an I decided to start with refresh 8 becaus 10 seemed too powerful to me.
The Power itself is not of concern, but as a newbie to the system I thought it would be more relaxed to find out some of the rules and bugs whith not so powerful characters...

[Lanir]

Haven't run DFRPG yet... So take any opinions with a grain (or more) of salt.

That said, I tend to think it's easier to start lower powered. Your story isn't irrevocably harmed if you decide the power level is too low and you'd like to "fast forward" a bit to a point where the characters have more experience.

What Guldor said about the experience of the group with DFRPG will matter a lot. How they manage their Aspects and fate points seems like it could make a rather large difference, not to mention using maneuvers and cooperative tactics to deal with more intractable foes. I know the Dresden Files novels don't do this real often but you could always borrow a page from the superhero genre and throw a group of enemies at the PCs rather than one big one (superhero team meet... supervillain team! *cue evil laughter*). Part of the reason this doesn't happen a lot in the novels is because Harry is often going it solo. Which as every good gamer knows is tantamount to asking the GM to do evil things to you.

[Masurao]

I think the fun part is, that you can throw someting at them that negates their specializations and forces them to use their heads to overcome the challenge. When it counts, they should be able to cut loose, but there's nothing prohibiting you from going after what they take for granted

[Taran]

I took over a campaign that someone else was Gming.  I had no experience at all running DFRPG and I found it a bit challenging running tougher NPC's - sometimes forgetting what powers could do etc...  I also found that they weren't being challenged much by "regular people" in social situations / basic challenges like locks etc...most times players were beating Difficulties or opposed roles by 6-8 shifts.  Maybe this is how it is at that level - they are submerged after all and mundane challenges are...mundane - but the issue is I had no frame of reference.  If I ran it again, I'd start them at a lower refresh, for sure.

[polkaneverdies]

Keep in mind that you don't need all of the opposition to be one uber baddie. You could have one boss bad guy backed up by some heavy duty minions, or a larger number of competent ones.
That said though I would still suggest that you start off at 7 or 8 instead of ten if you want a power game. That would still let your people play a wizard but they wouldn't roll over all but the most heavy duty opposition. As someone else already mentioned starting off at a lower refresh will help force them to use different aspects of the game, than just their biggest power. 

[Masurao]

Or keep them on their feet with minor, but devious, challenges. A unexpected room, filled with traps. Or just one trap and watch them look for more furiously, with the baddy laughing maniacally all the while. Or, you know, escaping, but where's the fun in that?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Or, you know, escaping, but where's the fun in that?

To paraphrase Jim, the suffering of the players like heroin for GMs.  Seriously though, an escaping baddie means the players get a chance to step up their game.  Early losses/draws only make victory that much sweeter when they finally manage it.

[polkaneverdies]

Well said Mightybuzzard.

[admiralducksauce]

I started my group at 7 refresh, but we were explicitly making human or close-to-it characters.  It was my first time GMing Dresden, so I didn't want to have to deal with all the powers at once, either from the PCs or the villains I would have to make to challenge them.  A lower-powered game means that typically you don't need to throw world-shattering threats at your group.  I find that typically it leads to a little more attention to detail, since you're not glossing over things that are cake for immortal beings of ultimate power.  And detail is what helps connect me to the game and the setting.  So... I like lower-powered games.

And you can always hand out Major Milestones like candy if you want to power up your group once they have that baseline of connectivity to your setting, and once you have a handle on the various options available and how they might interact.  It's easier to give power to PCs than to take it away.

[Watson]

admiralducksauce - that is exactly how I feel. Refresh 7 (i.e. a custom level) is just one point away from enabling all the Templates (but if you are playing all-mortal, that does not matter). You are correct, in that one can hand out the Major Milestones very quickly if the GM wants the players to increase in power (taking them away, though, is not possible...  ).

Thanks for all the replies!

[edit: spelling]

[Mij]

I took over for another GM.  It was before any actual game play, but after the players had created characters.  They decided to go with Chest Deep (8 starting refresh) so that all the templates were available.  I didn't see any reason to make them re-do their characters, so that's where we started from.  We had 6 players, and I intentionally designed the NPCs to be in a range around their levels.

Looking at in in retrospect, it might have been easier if we had started with a lower refresh overall.  It does make playing (and GMing) simpler in that you have fewer powers and such to deal with on a regular basis.  However, my players really enjoyed having the full spectrum of templates, and we used the first couple adventures to let them "feel out" their characters and make tweaks where needed.  So it's turned out to be fun regardless, which is the primary goal in my opinion.

[admiralducksauce]

I know the Dresden Files novels don't do this real often but you could always borrow a page from the superhero genre and throw a group of enemies at the PCs rather than one big one

I'm all for multiple enemies, or at the very least the mastermind + competent henchmen + minions route.  Single powerful bad guys are too hard to balance IMO and can always fall victim to a good roll backed by a shitton of FP.  A group of baddies, though, provides options.  They can maneuver off each other.  Some can be killed and some can escape to vow revenge!