Tattoos for other Vampires

[Tedronai]

There is no cure known to mortals for Red Court Infected but there is one for White Court Virgins - and manipulating them into loving someone for that first time would be much easier than creating a treatment.

^Needs an 'other Houses may vary' caveat.

'Manipulating' someone into experiencing True Hope or True Courage might be a bit trickier even than manipulating two people (because, remember just manipulating the WCv isn't good enough) into simultaneously experiencing True Love.  Regular old love is, at least, something the general populace routinely puts substantial effort into obtaining.

[InFerrumVeritas]

^Needs an 'other Houses may vary' caveat.

'Manipulating' someone into experiencing True Hope or True Courage might be a bit trickier even than manipulating two people (because, remember just manipulating the WCv isn't good enough) into simultaneously experiencing True Love.  Regular old love is, at least, something the general populace routinely puts substantial effort into obtaining.

True Hope: One day, I'll be normal.  Teenagers make it so easy.

True Courage is tricky.

[Masurao]

My thoughts:
Since the fiction as good as says that Bram Stoker's "Dracula" is the manual of how Black Court Vampires work, and is so effective that the Black Court is all but extinct, then I'm going to side with whatever is established in that source.

Except that blosferatu aren't strikingly handsome and suave creatures, as a rule... Or do we think he used some form of magic to hide his ugly, undead self? Then again, I only saw mister Oldman in the movie, didn't read the book, so I might be spouting quatsch...

[SunlessNick]

In the book, he wasn't all that attractive, although he definitely looked human.  He talked a good game, and had a certain amount of charisma, but relied on threats and mind control to get the girls.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

In the book, he wasn't all that attractive, although he definitely looked human.  He talked a good game, and had a certain amount of charisma, but relied on threats and mind control to get the girls.

Threats and mind control, booze and flattery... whatever works.

[vultur]

Even beyond the "pre changed" White Court, considering Thomas's struggle with his Hunger, I don't see why something like Tattoos couldn't exist to help full-on White Court Vampires.  It's probably just that the setup of the Houses has meant that there weren't enough trying to fight their nature for any such thing to be developed.

[Discipol]

tattoo for white virgins should work exactly the same

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Even beyond the "pre changed" White Court, considering Thomas's struggle with his Hunger, I don't see why something like Tattoos couldn't exist to help full-on White Court Vampires.  It's probably just that the setup of the Houses has meant that there weren't enough trying to fight their nature for any such thing to be developed.

They probably could but you'd bring the WC down on your head if you tried.  Well, their cat's paws du jour anyway.  Expect pain if anyone finds out a character is researching, attempting, or has done it.

[Tedronai]

They probably could but you'd bring the WC down on your head if you tried.  Well, their cat's paws du jour anyway.  Expect pain if anyone finds out a character is researching, attempting, or has done it.

I'm not so sure that an attempt at such a thing would necessarily 'bring the WC down on your head'.
Frankly, I'd think that a substantial portion of the Court would be interested in seeing you succeed, at least in part, in your attempt.
"Mystical tattoos that help you to control your Hunger?  It could certainly cut down on 'clean-up' expenses if certain members of the Court could be...assisted in such a way.  Here, have a few thousand dollars to support your research."
"Mystical tattoos that warn others when you're in danger of losing control?  Nonsense, you'd put the entire Court at risk with such a thing.  And that simply will not be allowed."

[Richard_Chilton]

Other than Thomas and a few other freaks, White Court Vampires are in tune with their hunger.  They have made friends and embraced their demon side - why would they want something that weakens it?

Thomas fights his nature and thus starves himself, but that's just because he hasn't accepted his role of predator over the cattle... Um, make that 'the human race'.  Other White Court Vampires manage their hunger the same way Red Court Vampires and Black Court Vampires do - feeding discreetly when necessary and having fun in private.

On the other hand, a wizard who has researched the inner nature of the White Court Beast well enough to control it? To weaken or enslave it? Killing him is worth paying a weregild to  the White Council - that is it is, if the White Council can trace that junkie who surprised and killed the wizard (or whichever pawn they used) back to the White Court.

Richard

[Masurao]

Clearly there are two halves in a struggle with WCV's who fight their Hunger, psychologically. With RCV's, I'd call it a physical need to feed and RCI have their bodies altered to desire blood, in order to complete the mystical transformation into a monster.

Perhaps the imagery we have of WCV's and their Hunger, as a personified/antropomorphic demonic entity 'living in their heads' is wrong, but it is what we have, plus: Thomas clearly fights his Hunger and gets mental consequences because of it. Following through on that logic, any magical tattoos would probably have mind magic woven into them. Beyond what that might mean for the one who creates them, consider what such magic would do to the vamp's mind: it might calm the Hunger, but at the cost of them becoming psychopathic sociopaths?

So, simply put: in my mind the difference between RCV and RCI, when compared to WCV is body vs mind (apart from the supernatural aspects, of course). Reds' needs are physical and the tattoos the Infected get, inhibit those physical reactions. Whites' needs are psychological, so logically, their tattoos would need to affect their minds. And we all know how good mind magic is for our sanity, now don't we kids? :p

[Tedronai]

Other than Thomas and a few other freaks, White Court Vampires are in tune with their hunger.  They have made friends and embraced their demon side - why would they want something that weakens it?

Thomas fights his nature and thus starves himself, but that's just because he hasn't accepted his role of predator over the cattle... Um, make that 'the human race'.  Other White Court Vampires manage their hunger the same way Red Court Vampires and Black Court Vampires do - feeding discreetly when necessary and having fun in private.

On the other hand, a wizard who has researched the inner nature of the White Court Beast well enough to control it? To weaken or enslave it? Killing him is worth paying a weregild to  the White Council - that is it is, if the White Council can trace that junkie who surprised and killed the wizard (or whichever pawn they used) back to the White Court.

Richard

Lara (in Turn Coat) explicitly denounces the abandon with which some members of her Court feed (though I can't, for the moment, recall the name of the specific WCV that inspired her comment: the female that showed up at Zero).  I have no doubt that she would be accepting of a certain amount of restraint being enforced on their ilk.

Clearly there are two halves in a struggle with WCV's who fight their Hunger, psychologically. With RCV's, I'd call it a physical need to feed and RCI have their bodies altered to desire blood, in order to complete the mystical transformation into a monster.

Perhaps the imagery we have of WCV's and their Hunger, as a personified/antropomorphic demonic entity 'living in their heads' is wrong, but it is what we have, plus: Thomas clearly fights his Hunger and gets mental consequences because of it. Following through on that logic, any magical tattoos would probably have mind magic woven into them. Beyond what that might mean for the one who creates them, consider what such magic would do to the vamp's mind: it might calm the Hunger, but at the cost of them becoming psychopathic sociopaths?

So, simply put: in my mind the difference between RCV and RCI, when compared to WCV is body vs mind (apart from the supernatural aspects, of course). Reds' needs are physical and the tattoos the Infected get, inhibit those physical reactions. Whites' needs are psychological, so logically, their tattoos would need to affect their minds. And we all know how good mind magic is for our sanity, now don't we kids? :p

Not all mind magic is necessarily lawbreaking.  See Harry's comments regarding phantasms in Changes as he extricates Susan.
Some of it is only very close to lawbreaking.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Lara (in Turn Coat) explicitly denounces the abandon with which some members of her Court feed (though I can't, for the moment, recall the name of the specific WCV that inspired her comment: the female that showed up at Zero).  I have no doubt that she would be accepting of a certain amount of restraint being enforced on their ilk.

My thinking was that the White Court, as a whole, do not see themselves as humans who have a hunger.  They see themselves as predators and us as food.  They would see any attempt to get them to eat less as an aggressive move on the part of the Council.  And like Richard said, they would go absolutely spare if a wizard were trying to study them intimately enough to to affect their hunger.  That's only a few steps from being able to neuter them and with their control fetish they could never let that happen.

If there were enough like Thomas who were willing to take on the White Court in the same way as was done to the Red, then you might have cover and subjects enough to get something similar made.  Maybe.  The whites aren't the reds though; control and power are like crack to them.  I just don't see it happening unless you're willing to radically alter your world enough to get a civil war within the White Court going.

[Richard_Chilton]

Lara (in Turn Coat) explicitly denounces the abandon with which some members of her Court feed (though I can't, for the moment, recall the name of the specific WCV that inspired her comment: the female that showed up at Zero).  I have no doubt that she would be accepting of a certain amount of restraint being enforced on their ilk..

Enforced by whom? Aye, there's the rub.  There's no way that she would allow an outside force (White Council) to control her people.  After all, once the hunger is dialed back, whose to say the dial can't be pushed back even further?  To the point where the White Court Vampire starves to death - effectively wiping out the court.

There's a short story in Side Jobs where a member of another court is attempting to cripple the White Court.  If grabbing someone and giving him a tattoo was all it took to weaken I could see open season being declared on the White Court.

As for an internal faction with control - I can think of nothing that would unite the White Court faster than something like that being proposed.

Richard