Monsters and Free Will

[polkaneverdies]

Some groups treat all npcs as having 0 refresh. Some groups do not. That might explain the disconnect you guys are having.

[Richard_Chilton]

Ah - sorry then.  I misread it.

Richard
(Who doesn't go back to edit out errors from old posts)

[SunlessNick]

Consider: what if the nature of the monster is being free-willed?  -  toturi

It does make me wonder how to stat djinn in the Dresden setting, as free will is an important part of their folklore (while a lot of them labour under bindings, that's not meant to be their nature).

[Sanctaphrax]

They have 1 refresh and get compelled while on zero FP a lot.

A sponsor debt mechanic would also be appropriate, I think.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about djinn.

[newtinmpls]

I must still be tired (or maybe it's the combo of Kraken Rum and Ibu that I took for my back pain) because I stared at this for far too long waiting for it to make sense:

"Otherwise, the RAW say that certain things don't have freewill and aren't available as PCs.  If a group agrees that they're fine with someone playing X with a freewill then that's great for that group but that's not the RAW."

That's got to be Rules As Written, right? <insert maniacal and slightly hysterical laughter here> That is the reason I DM, to DEFY the "rules"! (and that's the reason that I game at all).

A PC has the huge/enourmous advantage of having a Player as an active oversoul (bear with me) so that while in the normal course of things John Doe would run FROM trouble, John Doe as roleplayed by PC can overcome his or her normal low refresh to run TOWARD it.

I think anything can become a PC. It's the equivalent of part of the character's soul raising it's hand (and in Wheel of Time parlance) volunteering to become Ta'Verne (no idea how to spell that).

[Richard_Chilton]

"Otherwise, the RAW say that certain things don't have freewill and aren't available as PCs.  If a group agrees that they're fine with someone playing X with a freewill then that's great for that group but that's not the RAW."

That's got to be Rules As Written, right? <insert maniacal and slightly hysterical laughter here> That is the reason I DM, to DEFY the "rules"! (and that's the reason that I game at all).

Yes, RAW is Rules As Written.  No, I hadn't encountered that abbreviation until hitting this board then turned to google to see what it meant.  Half the time I still type out 'rules as written'....

The Dresden Files RPG lends itself to custom rules.  In some places it practically demands them.  The publisher refuses to give rules clarification, instead giving advice (look at the Law Breaker sticky and you will find advise from a couple of people who worked on the game).

The thing is, when there's a debate going on it's always nice to say "My group likes playing with this homebrew" or something like that.  If you want have to have someone (PC or NPC) who's a Black Court Vampire with freewill, that's great.  The thing is, your group deciding that something like that works for them doesn't change what the rules say about freewill.

So my position "Black Court Vampires can't have freewill as per the RAW" while your position is "Black Court Vampires (or anything else) can have freewill in my game if I as GM allow it" - and we're both right.  My position covers the default rules as written while yours covers your homebrew.   Most of our disagreement seems to been because of confusion over what the other guy was saying.

Richard

[newtinmpls]

"Most of our disagreement seems to been because of confusion over what the other guy was saying."

I disagree. OOPs sorry I had to say that.

What I actually mean is that I think that part of the essence of the disagreeement is "this works best <meaning "I like doing it my universe"> and not 'getting' that meaning.

[Masurao]

It does make me wonder how to stat djinn in the Dresden setting, as free will is an important part of their folklore (while a lot of them labour under bindings, that's not meant to be their nature).

Well, that's a good question... Jinn were created before humanity and are a lot like angels, even having there own Lucifer (Iblis), we western folk even get our word Satan for Iblis' new name after he got booted out of paradise. There is one snag, however, they're said to live in a mirror world to our own and are almost always invisible to humans.

Of course, you could always come up with something to make them free-willed, however, I feel that it isn't exactly necessary and you might be inviting more trouble in some cases. In the Qu'ran, they are said to have free will, but the book is written by humans, for starters. If you do take the Qu'ran as truth, are you going to make Allah the same as the White God, or another entity altogether? If they are the same, than why doesn't the Bible really mention the Jinn (speaking about public perception, don't personally know if they are inferred or referred to)? Were we lied to?! If they are different, then does that mean that angels have two bosses? Or are there different angels for both Yahweh and Allah?

Ugh... I've given myself a brain-ache...

[Lanir]

You shouldn't have too much problem implementing new ideas into the Dresden Files universe. It's actually pretty open when you think about it. Just within the novels we have fae, Lovecraftian horrors, and the Norse pantheon all showing up alongside ideas from the Christian faith. Given the rather complex treatment angels have been given in the series so far I think you're totally safe having them just not answer any questions about who they serve. It's not like they give straight answers on any other topic, why should this one be unique?

Ultimately the only thing you have to do is be respectful when you handle other people's beliefs. Some easy ways to do this are to avoid questions like whether Yahweh and Allah are the same person, how powerful deities are in relation to each other, etc. When big, existential stuff comes up in the novels, most of the time answers are not forthcoming. If they come up in your game, try giving a generic answer like "That you've asked the question is more interesting than any answer I could give." or "That isn't the right question. What you should be asking is <insert question more directly appropriate to the situation here>".