Thaumaturgy Specialization is the same as Crafting Specialization?

[Discipol]

I have Thaumaturgy and decided to put the specialization on controlling Conjuration.

Now, I want to make an enchanted leather duster like Dresden has. I found on page 281 about Crafting Specialization that you can choose either Strength or Frequency, so I chose Strength.

My DM says that there is only one specialization for either Control or Complexity for conjuration or wards etc, OR Strength or Frequency for enchanted items, but I say these are two separate things.

The discussion also involves the debate whether enchanted items belong exclusively to Thaumaturgy; or if you only have Evocation, could you make a ring of force like Dresden has? If you could, then the Crating Specialization is in effect, when you don't have Thaumaturgy, which makes Crafting Specialization and Thaumaturgy Specialization two separate things.

We await your input, thanks.

[Arcteryx]

My DM says that there is only one specialization for either Control or Complexity for conjuration or wards etc, OR Strength or Frequency for enchanted items, but I say these are two separate things.

They are separate things, i.e. let us say you have Thaumaturgy. On your Thaumaturgy specialization, you go with a +1 Crafting Strength.

You then get a Refinement and you go for two more specializations, so you grab another +1 Crafting Strength and a +1 Divination Complexity.

Your specialization list looks like this:

• Crafting +2 Strength
• Divination +1 Complexity

Note the pyramid - you cannot have a +2 without a +1 somewhere else.

You get a second Refinement, and again you get two more specializations. You want to get a +2 Frequency to Crafting, so you would look like this:

• Crafting +2 Strength
• Crafting +2 Frequency
• Divination +1 Complexity

... but again there's the accursed pyramid. So you ditch +1 in Crafting Frequency and put it into Divination Control instead. Your specializations now look like this:

• Crafting +2 Strength
• Crafting +1 Frequency
• Divination +1 Complexity
• Divination +1 Control

You'll have to wait for another Refinement to bring that Crafting Frequency up another +.

The discussion also involves the debate whether enchanted items belong exclusively to Thaumaturgy; or if you only have Evocation, could you make a ring of force like Dresden has? If you could, then the Crating Specialization is in effect, when you don't have Thaumaturgy, which makes Crafting Specialization and Thaumaturgy Specialization two separate things.

We await your input, thanks.

If you only have Evocation, you can still craft focus items. However, no enchanted items or potions for you.

[Discipol]

You misunderstood, but answered the question in your own way. The fact that evocation focus slots mention you can turn into enchantment, it would be silly to give you the option to convert focus slots to enchantment slots without the ability to do something with them


Second opinions?

[Arcteryx]

I was looking for this post to quote and you answered before I could

YS, IIRC, stipulates that Channeling/Evocation allows you to have focus items. Ergo, it's possible to have a focus item, no? That's not connecting A to B, that's A to A. I'm not sure I'd allow you to change it once you establish it, tho. Regardless, the point is, with the item slot comes the item, as it were. No point in getting you a slot that you can't ever fill.

That's a copy & paste from the Neutral Grounds discussion which is on the Resource Board.

[Discipol]

that quote is about focus items, not enchants

[Richard_Chilton]

But the theory is the same.

Each focus slot is one focus item or two enchanted items.  It's one slot that can be filled two different ways.  So

Regardless, the point is, with the item slot comes the item, as it were. No point in getting you a slot that you can't ever fill.

applies.

Richard

[Discipol]

But the theory is the same.

Each focus slot is one focus item or two enchanted items.  It's one slot that can be filled two different ways.  Soapplies.

Richard

So it is possible to have enchanted objects using only Evocation, thus having the ability to specialize on either Strength or Frequency?

[Haru]

I would allow the use of evocation enchanted items, but not as general as an item with thaumaturgy or ritual backing it. The character could have an item that he casts an evocation type spell with (this means active blocks, not reactive, everything by evocation rules and means), so it would basically save him 1 point of stress per enchanted item over the course of 1 session. I don't think that is too powerful, I just sort of think of this as his last reserves or something, an ace up his sleeves, if you will. For more complex enchanted items, he would need thaumaturgy.

But evocation does not specialise in strength or frequency, that's thaumaturgy's playground.

[Discipol]

And yet the specialization for strength/duration is under item creation, not thaumargy types. It even says thats ambiguously thamaurgy, as making a magic circle is.

Just because its precise, long time made magic doesn't drop it into the thaumaturgy rule set.

[gojj]

You cannot take a Crafting Specialization without full Thaurmaturgy and cannot craft your own items or potions without at least Ritual: Crafting. However, I see no reason your character cannot have enchanted items even though he only has Evocation (or Channeling) provided you explain this in your story. Whether your wizard father made you one on your eighteenth birthday, your buddy made you one, etc, because otherwise it would beg the question of how you got the enchanted item in the first place. A Crafting specialization is the same as a specialization in wards, biomancy, etc, it's just tweaked a little bit.

Item Creation is under the Thaurmaturgy section and yes it is a type of Thaurmaturgy.

[Tedronai]

And yet the specialization for strength/duration is under item creation, not thaumargy types.

'Item creation' itself is in 'thaumaturgy types'

[Discipol]

point taken