Author Topic: Adapting Myth or Creating New?  (Read 15502 times)

Figging Mint

  • Guest
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2011, 08:46:10 PM »
You can't hate a cardboard cutout. 

Well, give me enough space to swing and watch me give my durnedest.  ;D

Offline Bearracuda

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2011, 09:27:18 PM »
Many folks out there pray to the Túatha de Dannan and follow the faith and customs of their Ancestors, just as many worship ... the Gods of the many American peoples, etc. As a result, it is important that- as authors- we get it right if we wish to avoid the upset or outright angry emails and rantings :)

Not offended, just tossin' this out there.  I am american.  Not native, but there is a certain standard of learning to which we are imparted on the traditional native american beliefs and really I got the impression that Native Americans don't -have- any gods.  They certainly have godlike beings.  Most often what gets interpreted as gods in the Native American culture is a generalization of animal stories in which said animal has supernatural traits and human characteristics, such as with the trickster coyote.  He will speak to other characters, deceive them, pop in and out as if by magic.  The Native American beliefset is more centered around the worship of earth and the cycle of life rather than deities.  It emphasizes building a harmonic link between the land and all forms of life.  It is extremely important by Native American beliefs, for example, that if a man is to kill an animal, he MUST make use of ALL of its body.  He can't just take the skin or the meat.  He went out of his way to take that animal's life to help better his life, and each and every life is of utmost importance.  It would be disrespectful of him to only take one piece of the remains.  Ironically, if you're interested in a little current day media based on Native American beliefs, your best bet would be Avatar (yes, the one by james cameron)  The na'vi are based off of Native Americans, and in fact the entire movie is just a science-fiction rehash of the settling of America by european immigrants.  The only difference being the fancy spaceships, holograms, false bodies, and of course, the Na'vi winning.

Totally random thought, often Native Americans who still live by the old ways are offended by the term "Native American," they prefer to be called indians 'cause that's what they've been called for the past couple hundred years, and to their way of thinking, it's the English word for their peoples.  The term "Native American" only recently cropped up because wanted to be politically correct.

Also, I just wanna say, your post earlier was very informative.  I just recently took a bit of a look into traditional Celtic mythology because I was fascinated by Butcher's world, and I didn't even find as much as you just posted.  I'd love to hear a little bit more about it in PMs if you've got the time.

Offline OZ

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4129
  • Great and Terrible
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2011, 10:58:19 PM »
Quote
It is extremely important by Native American beliefs, for example, that if a man is to kill an animal, he MUST make use of ALL of its body.  He can't just take the skin or the meat.

We are venturing into TT here but this is not necessarily accurate. There were multiple tribles and they all had their own beliefs although many of them overlap. The use of the entire animal had more to do with necessity than religion. In places where there was plenty many tribes were wasteful just as people now days that have plenty tend to be wasteful while those that don't learn to get the most out of what they have.
How do you know you have a good book?  It's 3am and you think "Just one more chapter!"

Offline Breandan

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Fear the Combat Teddy-Bear Robe!
    • View Profile
    • the Dark Nova Novels Website
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2011, 01:21:53 AM »
I will admit my experience is limited to NW tribes, as my stepfather is Haida and I grew up around Haida and Tlinget. My knowledge of plains and Eastern American tribes is limited by comparison
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

Offline Dresdenus Prime

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • More than meets the Wizards Sight
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2011, 12:41:56 PM »
Breandan what would you suggest as the go to book to understand Irish Mythology? In particular I'm looking for as much information as I can on Morrighan, but as a whole I'm fascinated with it all.
DV Dresdenus Prime v1.2 YR6 FR(M)1 BK+ RP- JB TH++ WGH CL- SW+ BC+ MC++++ SH(Molly++++ Murphy- Elaine-- Mab+++++)

Offline Breandan

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Fear the Combat Teddy-Bear Robe!
    • View Profile
    • the Dark Nova Novels Website
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2011, 06:02:36 AM »
For a direct source, Lady Augusta Greggory's Gods and Fighting Men. It's a bit sterile, as she cleaned up a lot of the sex and violence in it (it was written over a century ago), but it is one of the best compilations of the old lore I have found. It's hard to read, as its written in a particular archaic dialect, though. If you can get access to them, there was a Time Life series of books called The Enchanted World which has excellent- if abbreviated- retelling of tales and lore from all over the world. Legends of Valor is a good one to start with.
"You know, the sad part is, that whole Combat Teddy Bear Robe incident was done while sober... *facepalm* "

Offline Dresdenus Prime

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 214
  • More than meets the Wizards Sight
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 01:53:34 PM »
For a direct source, Lady Augusta Greggory's Gods and Fighting Men.

So whether it was a crazy coincidence or meant to be, I went to amazon.com to look up this book, and there, under the Kindle edition, it said:

$0.00

Thanks for the suggestions Breandan! I'll check out those other ones too, but that was just too funny when I saw that!
DV Dresdenus Prime v1.2 YR6 FR(M)1 BK+ RP- JB TH++ WGH CL- SW+ BC+ MC++++ SH(Molly++++ Murphy- Elaine-- Mab+++++)

Offline The Corvidian

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 987
  • I like crows and ravens.
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2011, 12:12:59 AM »
Brendan, I ment Grandmother Summer, and Grandmother Winter. Grandmother Winter has to be the Cailleach Bheur.

Nickeris86, worgs are just dire wolves.
Clarke's Third Law: Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Niven's Converse to Clarke's 3rd Law: Sufficently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

Offline Nickeris86

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 362
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2011, 03:33:04 AM »
Brendan, I ment Grandmother Summer, and Grandmother Winter. Grandmother Winter has to be the Cailleach Bheur.

Nickeris86, worgs are just dire wolves.

Worgs, according to my research, were wolves of a evil and monstrous nature, the also refer to Fenrir and his sons. They are in a lot of myths but are always vile nasty and very intelligent spirit like beings.

Dire wolves were the ancestors of modern wolves and were actually shorter and thicker set than modern wolves. They are not the giant spike covered monstrosities that modern fantasy has made them out to be, I'm looking at you Wizards of the Coast.

Why spikes, honestly.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Offline The Corvidian

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 987
  • I like crows and ravens.
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2011, 03:22:03 AM »
Worgs, according to my research, were wolves of a evil and monstrous nature, the also refer to Fenrir and his sons. They are in a lot of myths but are always vile nasty and very intelligent spirit like beings.

Dire wolves were the ancestors of modern wolves and were actually shorter and thicker set than modern wolves. They are not the giant spike covered monstrosities that modern fantasy has made them out to be, I'm looking at you Wizards of the Coast.

Why spikes, honestly.

You can learn something new everyday. I always though worgs were created by Tolkien, and then appropriated by TSR.
Clarke's Third Law: Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Niven's Converse to Clarke's 3rd Law: Sufficently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

Offline black omega

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2011, 10:16:31 PM »
You can learn something new everyday. I always though worgs were created by Tolkien, and then appropriated by TSR.
I'd have trouble counting all the things D&D appropriated from Tolkien, even if Gygax did hate being reminded of that, and often vehemently disagreed.

Offline The Corvidian

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 987
  • I like crows and ravens.
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2011, 02:02:12 AM »
I'd have trouble counting all the things D&D appropriated from Tolkien, even if Gygax did hate being reminded of that, and often vehemently disagreed.

Wasn't TSR taken to court by Tolkien's heir(s)?
Clarke's Third Law: Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Niven's Converse to Clarke's 3rd Law: Sufficently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

Offline Snowleopard

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 27961
  • Small but sneaky.
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2011, 02:34:53 AM »
Er...isn't it wargs not worg?

Offline Nickeris86

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 362
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2011, 05:17:35 AM »
Er...isn't it wargs not worg?

I think you might be right snowleopard, though i think there are several correct ways of spelling it.
In the darkest hour i shall be there.

Offline Snowleopard

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 27961
  • Small but sneaky.
    • View Profile
Re: Adapting Myth or Creating New?
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2011, 08:51:46 AM »
Ah, okay, I just wondered.