Elements: Why build a wizard?

[ARedthorn]

Anyway, Evocation is still better than Channeling. I'll try to find the old "Is Channeling Useless" thread.

...

EDIT: Found the thread. It seems I misremembered the name. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23028.0.html

Many thanks for that- covers a lot of what I've been thinking about. And no big, I got kinda bullheaded too.

[ARedthorn]

Directly manipulating literal water isn't fluff that evil hat plopped into the system.
In Turncoat during the sanctum invocation (pg 272-273 hardcover) Harry reached underground to tap the water from a stream and blocked Demonreach's fire attack with a curtain of water.

I had always assumed that he was using earth magic to force the water to the surface, given that he's never had any sort of ability with water. He's used earth before, and it could do that.

Nevertheless, I'm good with direct use of water, to some degree. Not sure flowing water in any decent amount wouldn't ground even water magic out, but I'm talking rivers here.

[Tsunami]

Mortal Magic in general is grounded out by running water, regardless of element. That is how i run it.

Its one of the many mysterious things about magic, that Water-Magic does not ground itself out, yet is still grounded out by normal running water. Don't ask why... it just is like that.
(that is what i read out of the marginalia on the bottom left of YS:255)

[BumblingBear]

Yes but then this came up:

And in response you said:

Which is patently absurd .

This is why people were saying your interpretation on the versatility of the elements is too narrow. Shooting a jet of water with a water evocation is *abolutely* within the purview of the water element. I've seen people use the water element to condense water out of thin air and cause people to slip, to move snow, to freeze things, to pick up traces of blood, and other such things. These are all things water should be able to do fairly easily, but water wont be throwing out gouts of fire any time soon.

I completely agree.

Water mages can also make spikes of ice shoot at things, and I would even let a character form a blade of ice out of the condensation in the air.

I like to make up rules on the fly that make sense, so I'd allow the ice mage to cast the spell as a 3 shift evocation, and each additional shift would give the blade 2 actions of life.  Another 2 shifts could be spent to raise the weapon value by 1.

I would not allow a fire mage to do quite the same thing.

[ways and means]

I completely agree.

Water mages can also make spikes of ice shoot at things, and I would even let a character form a blade of ice out of the condensation in the air.

I like to make up rules on the fly that make sense, so I'd allow the ice mage to cast the spell as a 3 shift evocation, and each additional shift would give the blade 2 actions of life.  Another 2 shifts could be spent to raise the weapon value by 1.

I would not allow a fire mage to do quite the same thing.

But that negates the option of a Sword of Flaming Awesome, a invisible air blade, a wind edged dagger or a stone mace which would be equally awesome and doable.

[BumblingBear]

But that negates the option of a Sword of Flaming Awesome, a invisible air blade, a wind edged dagger or a stone mace which would be equally awesome and doable.

I suppose the player could always convince me otherwise...

[braincraft]

I wouldn't see a problem with an evocation creating a temporary weapon, or overwriting an existing one (but not enhancing it), with its shifts being split between value and duration. It's not generally going to be more efficient than just using that same action (and stress box) to blast the guy.

[finnmckool]

 Sure, rockets are propelled by fire. They are also fire proof. Also, what if it's a tea cup? How you gonna not spill your tea? Or set the staff or rod on fire? They are made of wood. "But what if they're not?" But what if they're not yours?

All precisely why one element can't do everything.

A rocket uses fire.  Hot air balloons rise and fall because of fire.  Even a jet uses heated air. 

Is it ideal?  No...hence the possibility for compels (It's on Fire!) and declarations which reduce the strength of the spell. 
Probably not and, if it mattered to the story, that would be an excellent compel!
Mechanically?  Very little difference.  Computerking points a few of the differences out. 

But FATE isn't about simulating reality.  It builds a narrative.  And there's a significant difference in the narrative...and in the consequences likely to be taken.