Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**

[Seri]

First off- Oh My Gods. Seriously?! ~flails about~ Ahhh! So much goodness I think I might explode. Totally worth waiting a few extra months for. But can I say, Jim you magnificent b@stard... When will the next book be out?!

But can I say- totally nailed it with the Deamonreach theory. Though I was so, so hoping he'd be free of Mab. Curses! Now then. ~dusts off~

I think we're all working under the assumption that Harry is actually going to tell people that he's alive. Will he? He say how devastated everyone was and how they've all started to finally accept he's gone. Not to mention his daughter is with the Carpenters. He can't be around them now if he's trying to keep her identity secret. Not to mention all the other stuff that just went down.

So will he? I'm sure eventually he will, someone is bound to find out sooner or later. But I'm putting my money on not sooner. I see a lot of court politics and bad guy chasing in the future. Either in the Never Never or in the shadows- maybe not even in Chicago! At least for the next book or two. I mean he's always been in Chicago but some bad stuff be a brewin' and he's off to Faerie so who knows when he'll show up on the streets again.

[BadHumours]

Hi, everyone, first post.

With regard to Uriel's seven words: Uriel says that Mab is lying, but we know she is incapable of lying (Mr. Butcher thoughtfully wrote us a scene in this very book in which Dresden reminds us of this). On the other hand, nowhere is it said the Uriel is incapable of lying. He certainly seems to find it distasteful, but presumably he is capable of it, especially when issues of cosmic balance are involved.

The Fallen sent Harry along one path with a seven word* lie. It seems logical that Uriel would think it fitting to give him back his free will with another (a white lie in this case, and one that gives Harry the, perhaps misguided, courage to stand up to Mab). Bottom line: Harry is wrong. Mab has more control over him than he thinks she does.

*-Btw, anyone else excited over what is, to me at least, clearly an homage to Rothfuss?

[jphendren]

I think we're all working under the assumption that Harry is actually going to tell people that he's alive. Will he? He say how devastated everyone was and how they've all started to finally accept he's gone. Not to mention his daughter is with the Carpenters. He can't be around them now if he's trying to keep her identity secret. Not to mention all the other stuff that just went down.

So will he? I'm sure eventually he will, someone is bound to find out sooner or later. But I'm putting my money on not sooner. I see a lot of court politics and bad guy chasing in the future. Either in the Never Never or in the shadows- maybe not even in Chicago! At least for the next book or two. I mean he's always been in Chicago but some bad stuff be a brewin' and he's off to Faerie so who knows when he'll show up on the streets again.

True, i think to a degree we are all assuming that sometime in the next book, Harry will make his way back into chicago to renunite with the justice league. The way the stories are going it will most likely be in the last 2-3 paragraphs of the next book. But of course the possiblity exists that He will be unable to contact or unwilling to contact them. However, i just can't see that being the case.

He's already seen the devastation he has caued his friends and loved ones , and he recognizes that they are all still in danger what with them not having a heavyweight wizard around to balance the scales, so he's going to want to get back to chicago asap, possibly in a shadow role if nothing else, so that he can continue to protect his "family".

The big question in the next book is to what lengths does Harry have to go to secure his parole from Mab, to be able to operate out of Chicago, and not the Winter Court. Because while i can see the possibility of one book taking place in the Fairie courts, with all new supporting cast, I can't see two. Since i would think that constantly being surrounded by the "otherness" of the unseelie courts would weigh on him heavily for an extended period of time.

[jphendren]

*-Btw, anyone else excited over what is, to me at least, clearly an homage to Rothfuss?

That's awesome, I feel like a dunce for not even realizing that after reading it. Nice Catch! "The Name of the Wind" definitely gripped me like no other debut novel since Storm Front.

[Autra]

Hi, everyone, first post.

With regard to Uriel's seven words: Uriel says that Mab is lying, but we know she is incapable of lying (Mr. Butcher thoughtfully wrote us a scene in this very book in which Dresden reminds us of this). On the other hand, nowhere is it said the Uriel is incapable of lying. He certainly seems to find it distasteful, but presumably he is capable of it, especially when issues of cosmic balance are involved.

The Fallen sent Harry along one path with a seven word* lie. It seems logical that Uriel would think it fitting to give him back his free will with another (a white lie in this case, and one that gives Harry the, perhaps misguided, courage to stand up to Mab). Bottom line: Harry is wrong. Mab has more control over him than he thinks she does.

Was Uriel's point actually that Mab can lie at all? His 7 words were what jolted Harry into realizing what little leverage he had over Mab. She doesn't want an automaton, she wants a freethinking bada$$ working for her. He has a little bit of leverage because she doesn't want him to "have the initiative of a garden statue," and the Uriel's 7 words helped him figure that out.

Who cares whether Mab or Uriel can tell a lie? Uriel said what needed to be said, when it needed to be said.

[GeSar]

Harry thinks she knows: "You can't make me your monster. Doesn't work. And you know it."

I think it's simpler than that.  The words were not lies, the implication was.  As Harry said, while the fae cannot lie, they can deceive.   When Harry was pushing back at Mab, he never denied that she could force an action.   He just threatened her with results would be the opposite of what she wanted.  He was negotiating the fine print now that Uriel pointed out that he wasn't an automaton, nor was it what she wanted.

[rbette1299]

What Harry got from his ghost story was that he owns his soul and no one can make him give it up, especially not Mab. When he realized what she had done to keep his body alive he realized how very important he was to her and that is his leverage. At best, she will be able to direct him but not control. He will likley face several future ethical delimnas with her. She will want him to take down someone that he doesn't believe deserves it and this will be very interesting to see how it plays out. Btw did anyone think of the Hive Queen in the Speaker for the Dead, Orson Scott Card when Mab's was described as being as a nearly starved insect?

I really enjoyed this time out for Harry as we got to see him mature big time. He is now connecting the dots and accepting that actions always have consequences. I think we will see him be much more thoughtful and analytical in the future.

I would be surprised if we see him back in Chicago for more than a brief visit for several more books. They told him that Chicago was doing better than most other big cities because of the Justice League and Molly/Rag Lady. I think Harry will be playing with the Big Boys in other interesting places in the world for awhile. I can't wait until he comes up against the White or Black Council. The White Council could still sanction him for what he did to the Red Court seeing as how they have had to hop to clean up the repercussions. But, while he is the Winter Knight, they can't touch him.

I think Harry is being groomed for something much bigger than Chicago and bigger than the Sidhe Court. Both sides want him and this interlude masterminded by Uriel was to make sure Harry knows he has choices and that it is his choices that define him.

[Vikermac]

How about little Maggie growing up with the Carpenters?  Seems ideal when Harry was presumed dead, but with/if Harry comes back to his Chicago life, still teaching/working with Molly, then he will invariably/inevitably interact with the Carpenters again.  I think Maggie will continue to play an important role in the DV.  Also, how are the White Council going to take the news?  If Harry was treated with mistrust and suspicion before now, how will they react to him coming back from the dead six months later?  Will his being a Winter Knight help him as far as the Council is concerned?  And will it stop him from taking up the mantel that Eb talking about in Changes?

[xakko]

Wow.  Just wow.

It took me two sittings, 'cause I had to work, but I *loved* *this* *book*.

I don't see Harry/Molly ever happening, not when Jim seems to be tying even more parallels to Luccio/Morgan with the "never going to happen" territory.  I agree Harry/Murphy takes a major blow as well, but I think Murph will aim much of her anger at Molly, poor girl.  Harry didn't know he'd chosen suicide.  Karrin's been around his crazy schemes long enough to understand what he was aiming for with the Kincaid-assisted suicide, and, in a sense, I think she might even forgive both of them for the shooting.  She herself noted that when dealing with monsters, sometimes you have to just take the shot.

My little dream about a future Little Harry/Maggie ship is now completely sunk.

I'm curious that it appears Elaine's come out to the White Council, if her words have enough weight to back up those of Carlos.

With all the comic book references, large parts of this made me feel like this was one long character development issue.  With kickass fights.  It really sets the groundwork for the rest of the series, a kind of Days of Future Past, but one that they have to live in. 

And I can't wait for Mab to turn Harry against the Fomor, ancient enemies of the Sidhe.  Makes you wonder if Summer and Winter (and the Erlking?) might have to team up on that.

[trek]

Anyone else have characters in mind that you were pretty well convinced you'd see in action in Ghost Story - but didn't?

Malcolm Dresden
Ebenezer McCoy
Sgt Rawlins
Toot-toot

[Vikermac]

Rawlins definitely not, unless it was a brief cameo of him responding to something.  If any of the WC were going to show up, sure, Eb would be logical but without them in the story, it makes sense we still wouldn't see him.  But you are right about Malcolm and even Margaret LaFey.  I mean, what with all the ghosts and afterlife talk of this one, I thought for sure we'd at least hear something from the parents.  Especially since Harry got to talk to his Dad back in DB.

[habu987]

I thought we'd see the Grey Council/Eb.  I was hoping we'd see Lara.  Other than them (and Lash), I didn't have any other characters I thought we'd see.

[john4200]

It was odd that we did not see or hear of Ebenezer McCoy. Considering that he dropped a satellite on the last people to mess with Dresden, I would have expected him to be on a major vendetta against whoever might be responsible for murdering Dresden. Given that Kincaid pulled the trigger (even at Harry's request), I wonder why McCoy wasn't after Kincaid. Only explanation I can come up with is that McCoy quietly investigated, found out everything somehow (including that Dresden's body was being kept alive), and decided his involvement was not required.

[Vikermac]

It was odd that we did not see or hear of Ebenezer McCoy. Considering that he dropped a satellite on the last people to mess with Dresden, I would have expected him to be on a major vendetta against whoever might be responsible for murdering Dresden. Given that Kincaid pulled the trigger (even at Harry's request), I wonder why McCoy wasn't after Kincaid. Only explanation I can come up with is that McCoy quietly investigated, found out everything somehow (including that Dresden's body was being kept alive), and decided his involvement was not required.

I think McCoy has to have his hands tied by the Council and maybe trying to prevent Molly from being hunted as much.  I mean, I'm sure he was royally pissed at whoever killed Harry, but he also knew how upset Harry was over the choices he was forced to make.  Maybe he knew that Harry was going to find a way out of Mab's grips, and while he didn't agree with them, he accepted them.

[john4200]

I think McCoy has to have his hands tied by the Council

Not possible. The White Council can only enforce the laws of magic, so at best they could prevent McCoy from killing the person with magic (but not with conventional means). But in McCoy's case, they cannot even do that, since he is the Blackstaff.