Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**

[HighLife]

Absolutely dumbfounded. Truly an excellent way to end that novel.

Argh! I need to stop getting into series early. Wait times kill me!

[Silkki]

I am a bit undecided. Do I want Jim to keep taking longer to write the stories for full assed ones, or do I want the books faster.

Arght Jim, please come give us more of heroi...... your books.

[Deathcurse]

I also finally signed up.  Too many thoughts about it, but I was wondering if anyone else caught the almost replacement like nature of Maggie for Molly.  Just struck me that they have the same name (albeit shortened differently), and Maggie was wearing molly's old clothes.  I read another thread that was all about the importance of names in this series, and I figured Jim must have done that on purpose, almost a replacement for what harry did to molly by way of the mexico battle.  The little details that Jim puts in makes the series that much better!

[Mister Butters]

Just wanted to comment that I'm so happy I'm not the only one to OM NOM NOM NOM NOM the book in one sitting 

Many people thought it was Kincaid on orders from someone.  But I don't think anyone thought it would be on orders from Harry.  I also think Jim threw us a ringer when he had commented on how Mab would totally not be fooled by a Winter Knight suicide.  We all dismissed the idea that Harry would try it anyway - and impress Mab by his attempt!

[huangjimmy108]

Does anyone got any idea about the familiar female voice at the end of Changes? It didn't seems to got that answer from reading ghost story. Or is that still not yet answered yet? Or maybe I miss something. The best candidate as far as I can gather from reading Ghost Story is Mab, and I really doubted it.

[omfgitsbacon]

Does anyone got any idea about the familiar female voice at the end of Changes? It didn't seems to got that answer from reading ghost story. Or is that still not yet answered yet? Or maybe I miss something. The best candidate as far as I can gather from reading Ghost Story is Mab, and I really doubted it.

Why do you doubt it? I mean its awfully reasonable . I think its his mother, personally, because the amulet that showed Harry the Ways back in Changes held her voice. Though its possible that its Lea, since she is Winter and instructed to take care of Harry(or his body).

[john4200]

So, which of the Fallen whispered in Harry's ear in the flashback from Changes? The Fallen looked like a shadow, so maybe Nicodemus?

Also, it was interesting that Mab lied to Harry. Harry always thought that the Fae were incapable of lying, but Uriel confirmed Mab's lie in the first of his seven words.

[jphendren]

First time poster here, long time Dresden-o-phile.

I have to say I was floored when the ending to changes cam around. Then yesterday, after picking up Ghost Story, i had to use all my willpower to not start reading at the last 10 pages of the book simply to see how they managed harry's resurrection.

Anyway, what struck me the most about GS, is the changes between the relationships that existed between harry and all the major and minor surrounding characters. I have to say I'm a little apprehensive for his reunion with the Justice league, as I think some of his relationships have been irrevocably strained, if not broken. Specifically I'm talking about Karrin and Molly.

Karrin - How do you all think Murphy is going to react to finding out that a) Harry is alive , b) Harry arranged his own murder and all the consequences that came from it, and c) that Harry used Kincaid, possibly the only other male romantic interest for her other than Harry, to do it. Personally I saw this novel as the death knell for any possible romantic hookup between Harry and Murphy. It reminds me of Harry's reaction to Susan not telling him about maggie. "We're done, you knew it when you didn't tell me about my child" or something to that extent. I can't see Murphy forgiving Harry for what he's done to the city, his friends or her, regardless of him having the best of intentions.

Molly - As much as I love Harry's character, once we found out that Harry used Molly to arrange his own murder, I kinda lost a little (still love him) respect for him as a man. It was possibly the single most selfish thing he has ever done. Thoughtless AND selfish, especially after seeing the toll it has taken upon Molly both in the physical  and mental side of the coin. I personally think that they are setting up Molly as his H.E.E. down the line, as she fulfills all the holes in a relationship that would be setbacks to Karrin and Harry getting together. She's a wizard and can relat to that side of his life, she's going to live a couple centuries (barring anyone dying) and she's already stated how hard its going to be to watch all her friends and family die around her. Thus making her more reliant on her relationship with Harry. But I wonder how she's going to recover from the ordeal set out in gHOST Story, plus however long it takes Harry to get back to Chicago from the  Winter Court.

I did like parts of how his relationship with Molly is changing, as exemplefied by the whole conversation they had in the restaraunt, and the honesty with which molly let out her feelings towards him. Furthermore the revelation that Harry had decided on a ... i guess you could call it a  "pet name" for Molly for when she wasn't his apprentice anymore, sorta puts her on the level with Murphy as being the only other woman in his life with that level familiarity.

Anyway, as excited as i am for the next book in the series, and how many new plot possibilities are now open with Ghost Story, I'm MOST intrigued as to how the dynamic between Harry and all his old friends is resolved.

[katrwal00]

Why do you doubt it? I mean its awfully reasonable . I think its his mother, personally, because the amulet that showed Harry the Ways back in Changes held her voice. Though its possible that its Lea, since she is Winter and instructed to take care of Harry(or his body).

I had a different place for Maggie Sr. to show up (by the way, thank you to all of you who post regularly, i haven't had this much fun dissecting a book since college).  When Harry materializes, the only thing he doesn't have is his pentagram amulet.  Maggie Sr. gave him the amulet, and then in Changes the insert which contained her knowledge of the Ways... so does it make sense that she's the "parasite" who's making his blood flow on Demonreach?  Perhaps a shade of herself (like Lash was) is actually imprinted on the amulet... which would be really fun if Harry were to give little Maggie his amulet to help her in her training when she discovers her magical powers...

Then again, i might just be suffering from sleep deprevation  ... thank you, thank you, thank you Mr. Butcher - these are amazing.

[Darwinist]

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26878.msg1145112.html#msg1145112

I'd just like to point out that I was right. Granted I was wrong on the minor details, I was actually right about who the killer was.

"What if the person who killed Harry Dresden, was Harry Dresden?"

/flex

[Taylor0401]

First off, Katrwal, I just wanted to say that I had thought the same thing about Maggie Sr, especially when the pentacle was the one thing that was missing from his ectoplasmic ensemble.  We already know that she had imprinted at least a small part of herself into the amulet and into her sons.  Going off that it isn't hard to believe that she is the voice at the end of Changes and that she may be the "parasite" that kept Harry's body alive this whole time.
Second, while I agree that the end could have been more dramatic, I'm glad it wasn't.  We've been dealing with the epic cliffhanger of Changes for over a year, and I would prefer not to do that again.  That is, of course, not to say that the end of this book didn't leave me craving more Dresden.  I'm just saying that at least when I finished this book I felt like it was a more stable ending, and that was certainly a relief.

I forgot to mention that, while unlikely, the parasite could have just as easily been Lash (which would definitely make my day).

[Jancarius]

I was just glad they didn't use Harry getting offed as an excuse to remove him as the Winter Knight, which I thuoght would have been pretty shoddy had Jim gone that way. 

Speculation on where Jim will go for the next book: Either start up right after this, with Harry laying the Winter Knight smackdown on everything that's come to Chicago in the last 6 months, or what?  Jim at some point said the final trilogy with be Hell's Bells, Empty Night, and (I forgot the last one).  He seemed pretty interested in Codex Alera, particularly in the author's note at the end, so I'm curious if he'll move onto that trilogy, or if we'll have the next one be Winter Knight?

[Taylor0401]

The Codex Alera is a 6 book series and it's been complete for a couple years now.  That note at the end is at the end of most of Jim's books.  It is an amazing series, and I would definitely recommend it 

[habu987]

Karrin - How do you all think Murphy is going to react to finding out that a) Harry is alive , b) Harry arranged his own murder and all the consequences that came from it, and c) that Harry used Kincaid, possibly the only other male romantic interest for her other than Harry, to do it. Personally I saw this novel as the death knell for any possible romantic hookup between Harry and Murphy. It reminds me of Harry's reaction to Susan not telling him about maggie. "We're done, you knew it when you didn't tell me about my child" or something to that extent. I can't see Murphy forgiving Harry for what he's done to the city, his friends or her, regardless of him having the best of intentions.

Molly - As much as I love Harry's character, once we found out that Harry used Molly to arrange his own murder, I kinda lost a little (still love him) respect for him as a man. It was possibly the single most selfish thing he has ever done. Thoughtless AND selfish, especially after seeing the toll it has taken upon Molly both in the physical  and mental side of the coin. I personally think that they are setting up Molly as his H.E.E. down the line, as she fulfills all the holes in a relationship that would be setbacks to Karrin and Harry getting together. She's a wizard and can relat to that side of his life, she's going to live a couple centuries (barring anyone dying) and she's already stated how hard its going to be to watch all her friends and family die around her. Thus making her more reliant on her relationship with Harry. But I wonder how she's going to recover from the ordeal set out in gHOST Story, plus however long it takes Harry to get back to Chicago from the  Winter Court.

I did like parts of how his relationship with Molly is changing, as exemplefied by the whole conversation they had in the restaraunt, and the honesty with which molly let out her feelings towards him. Furthermore the revelation that Harry had decided on a ... i guess you could call it a  "pet name" for Molly for when she wasn't his apprentice anymore, sorta puts her on the level with Murphy as being the only other woman in his life with that level familiarity.

I think this pretty much ruled out any Harry/Murphy relationship anytime soon.  I can't rule out them getting together 3 or 4, or 8 books later in the series, but I think this pretty much took any chance of them getting together in the near future and swatted it in the nose with a rolled up newspaper while saying "NO."  I didn't like how Murphy's character evolved in this book--that is, I liked how it evolved, but didn't like what she evolved into in the slightest, and see it being a huge wedge between her and Harry when he eventually returns to Chicago.

I lost a lot of respect for Harry in regards to what he did to Molly.  I'd say that's probably the most effed up thing he's knowingly done in the series to date, and that goes beyond the whole murdering Susan thing.  It was truly a terrible thing he did to Molly, and I really hope he'll repair it over the next book or two.  I'm a serious Harry/Molly shipper after the events of Ghost Story, so I hope that Harry, in the process of fixing his and Molly's relationship, mans up and does something non-asinine when it comes to females this time around.

[Daredeval]

To those speculating on the series's length: Jim has said here, there and everywhere that he intends the series to be 20-ish case books like the ones we know so far, plus a big "apocalyptic" trilogy to finish things off.

A brief point on uriel's seven words: A few thoughts on the word "lies".

1. The Sidhe cannot -knowingly- tell a lie. Mab could believe harry is hers, especially after bending so many knights before him to her purposes.
2. Still, I don't think Mab is lying. She says, “I have his oath, ancient one. What he has given is mine by right, and you may not gainsay it. He is mine to shape as I please.”

She doesn't mention souls specifically, and as we have seen, there are many, many forms of manipulation that don't rely on modifying the soul. Uriel's words remind Harry of what Mab knows, and does not contradict in that statement--that any alterations she makes to Harry's "shape" happen only by Harry's conscious choice.

And, to add something new to the discussion... does no one else think it oddly sinister how Marcone is setting himself up? To briefly recap: Harry completely smashes the "center" by taking out the Red Court and then having the gall to just up and die. Smaller powers in the monster world begin vying for power in the newly-created vacuum, especially in Chicago--so much so that even vanilla mortals are beginning to notice odd things happening. Marcone, with help from Oden and Company, begins setting up countermeasures and fortresses in Chicago.

What are the consequences? Will Marcone take over Chicago, being the most prepared, savvy and power-hungry mortal we've seen yet? What will his new rise in power mean for his position as a signatory of the Accords? Will he become more involved with Mab; is she playing a long game with him as well? (See Book 10)

I think he'll be an interesting character to watch.