Declarations - Help me understand some of them

[noclue]

It is true that there are neither any difference in the fiction (it is found or not) nor on the mechanical side (still a roll agains the same skill). However, there is a difference in how it is activated/triggered (Declaration = the character is looking for a specific thing, Assessment = the character is looking for something in general what is found is decided by the GM).

Hmmm, I don't see that difference in your examples.

Player: “I really could use a bucket of water to extinguish the fire. I am rolling my Investigation to make a Declaration about me finding one.”
GM: “OK, roll against difficulty 4.”

Player: “I really could use a bucket of water to extinguish the fire. Is there one that I can find?”
GM: “There might be, roll your Investigation against difficulty 4.”

Looks like the player came up with the bucket idea in both cases. Just put a question mark at the end of one of them.

In any event, I would suggest that there are lots of games out there where players can't have any impact on the "facts" of the world, which is fine. But, why not let them create buckets out of thin air when you're playing FATE. It's just a bucket. In return they tell you a bunch of ways to bribe them into doing idiotic and dangerous things. Seems like a good trade off

[devonapple]

The ultimate difference between Assessments and Declarations is that Assessments reveal facts which the GM presumably already established. In the GM's notes, it would say "Ley Line: requires a Lore Assessment of 4 to reveal" or "Guard: Aspect "Open to Bribery" or "Big Bad is looking to hire an assassin specializing in killing wizards." Those things existed already in the GM's mind or notes.

If the player wants to find something which is plausible (or not) but which the GM *did not* until that moment have in mind or written down, it is a Declaration. The GM is free to give a low difficulty to that check, or even require no roll at all, but it is still a Declaration, not an Assessment.

[sinker]

You know, Set Abominae posted a conversation with Fred a while back that would clear this right up, feel free to check out the full version, but here's the important bit. I added the italics to highlight the nature of each action.

That sequence of events is equivalent in effect to the player assessing the existence of the aspect and then making use of the aspect that results.

Or equivalent to the player undertaking a maneuver to weaken the boards in the floor and then making use of the aspect that results.

That's the "secret" of assessment, declaration, and maneuvering, in fact -- they're all the same action, in essence, a skill roll that gives rise to an aspect, which offers a free tag out of respect to the successfully made skill roll. The only difference between them is in terms of how the authority model appears to work. Assessment is a discovery of something the GM thought of, uncovered by a successful skill roll. Declaration is the establishment of a player-invented reality, backed by a successful skill roll.  A maneuver is a character-imposed change in circumstance, successfully established if the player makes a (often contested) skill roll. But outside of those authority models, it's the same basic game move.

So really it comes down to whether you the GM had come up with the bucket being there before hand, or whether the player has added the bucket afterwards. Mechanically there is absolutely no difference though, so it really isn't that important to differentiate them.

Random note: That's the second time I've posted that excerpt in less than a week, Thanks Set Abominae!

[BumblingBear]

You know, Set Abominae posted a conversation with Fred a while back that would clear this right up, feel free to check out the full version, but here's the important bit. I added the italics to highlight the nature of each action.

So really it comes down to whether you the GM had come up with the bucket being there before hand, or whether the player has added the bucket afterwards. Mechanically there is absolutely no difference though, so it really isn't that important to differentiate them.

Random note: That's the second time I've posted that excerpt in less than a week, Thanks Set Abominae!

The difference is that you cannot just spend a fate point to get an assessment.

You /can/ spent a fate point to make a declaration.

And the difference is that assessments pretty much exist as aspects until they are used.  IMO they're the most powerful aspects.  Like knowledge aspects.