Origins of the Three Eye drug. (Changes spoiler)

[Pnt]

I've got a few opinions on the Three Eye drug and are ole friend Victor.   Victor Sells didn't seem smart enough to have created the drug on his own and what were his motives for making it at all?  He already had the Beckitts for financial support so it wasn't for money.  Apparently it was incredibly addictive and as Harry explained the after affects of seeing the world as it truly is would leave you insane.  Not to mention a target for any magical creature that wants to keep itself hidden in society.  Also we learn from Changes that the spell was Victor was using to rip out people's hearts is the same spell that the Red King intended to use against Maggie Jr and her blood line.  But we don't know that it originated from the Red King.  It makes sense that whoever taught Victor Sells the curse probably taught him how to make the Three Eye drug also.  But I don't see why the Red King would give anybody the ability to see past their flesh masks least we have another Stocker-geddon like what happened to the black court.  I don't even think the White Court would want this.  They would be almost as vulnerable as the Reds.  Another thing, we never see the Red King use magic, just his will.  My opinion is that the Red King and Victor Sells learned about the curse from someone else, someone who wants the vanilla mortals to be aware of how the world truly is.   

[Linamar]

You're right, Victor wasn't smart enough to make the 3 eye drug on his own.  Whoever taught him magic must have been the one who taught him how to make the drug.  I'm not sure if it was to help reveal the Red Court, or if it was just an easy way to sow a lot of chaos.  We'll find out, I suspect.

The Beckitts only supported Victor because he promised to bring down Marcone.  If Victor hadn't been doing that, they wouldn't have been doing anything to help him.  Nobody likes a squatter.

I think the Red Court already knew the curse.  Vadderung said that the curse hadn't been used in thousands of years, but it had been around.  Maybe there just wasn't a big enough target for the Reds to justify using that kind of power until now.  Most likely, whoever taught Victor learned the curse from someone in the Red Court.

[Electric MacButters]

Actuall, Victor contacted the Becketts to help him make more Three-Eye, not the other way around.  Other than that one out of order issue, you do have a valid theory.  

Personally, I think that the Three-Eye may be a by-product of some other potion that someone was trying to teach him.  In SF Harry and Bob state several times that every potion recipie is different for every mage and will have slightly different effects depending on who made it.  It could be that someone gave Victor his recipie for straight up crazy juce, but when Victor makes it it opens the user to The Sight.

[sociotard]

yeah, one running speculation is that
*Person who gave Victor the Three Eye recipe to attack Marcone
*Person who gave hexenwulf belts to the FBI to attack Marcone
*Person who got Denarians to attack Marcone
are the same person. It makes me wonder if Marcone is even more important in the BAT than Harry is. 

[ballplayer72]

Actuall, Victor contacted the Becketts to help him make more Three-Eye, not the other way around.  Other than that one out of order issue, you do have a valid theory.  

Personally, I think that the Three-Eye may be a by-product of some other potion that someone was trying to teach him.  In SF Harry and Bob state several times that every potion recipie is different for every mage and will have slightly different effects depending on who made it.  It could be that someone gave Victor his recipie for straight up crazy juce, but when Victor makes it it opens the user to The Sight.

Or maybe, vic was having trouble getting his sight to open up and so the potion was made to knock him off the fence so to speak.   And seeing how trippy it was (and hopelessly addictive) vic couldve seen the profit in it.

[spinningcats]

I don't see why it couldn't be Victor's own creation.  We have only seen Harry make potions and he seems pretty terrible at it since Bob needs to constantly hold his hand.

Remember that Victor could easily have been experimenting on other people until he perfected the potion.  He could have also been constantly perfecting the formula as he sold it until it became what Harry found.  I doubt he ever took it himself at all, epecially since the original purpose seems like it was to make his wife and others see things like he could.  When he gives it to his wife he acts very happy that its addictive like he didn't necessarily know before.

[Phariah]

well i think you would be giving Victor too much credit. he has no idea that another wizard can take control of his demon he uses its name in front of Harry. he had no idea Harrry could mentally smack his shadow self. he only knows specific things that his teacher taught him and he worked on. he is a one trick pony.

Harry doesn't know most of the formula for the potions, Bob is his recipe book. those recipes are elementry compared to 3eye. Victor isn't a magic genius, 3 eye is like an advanced biochemistry, while Victor would be ranked elementry school chemistry. so no i think he was given the recipe and it took awhile for him to gain enough knowledge of his power to bring that potion to its fruition.

i think 3eye was meant to destabilize Chicago. if anyone knows how devestating the crack epidemic was, and 3 eye being more addictive, wow.

[DominicJ]

well i think you would be giving Victor too much credit. he has no idea that another wizard can take control of his demon he uses its name in front of Harry. he had no idea Harrry could mentally smack his shadow self. he only knows specific things that his teacher taught him and he worked on. he is a one trick pony.

Sells' limited knowledge points to him NOT having a teacher, not not having a teacher.

I'd bet that he was self taught, using an extensive library of books, and *someone/thing* made sure those books were the real deal

Why make third eye?  Because he can.
Why go to war with Marcone?  Because Marcones in the way of his three eye trade

[Arjan]

yeah, one running speculation is that
*Person who gave Victor the Three Eye recipe to attack Marcone
*Person who gave hexenwulf belts to the FBI to attack Marcone
*Person who got Denarians to attack Marcone
are the same person. It makes me wonder if Marcone is even more important in the BAT than Harry is. 

The red court wanted to expand in the chicago criminal underground so it makes sense to get rid of competition. That is marcone. Harry was not yet that important 

The red court got help from wizzards (or the wizzards used them). I think they did not want to confront Harry because they hoped he would turn warlock and become a potential ally.

The denarians are not in this list because they captured marcone to get to Harry to get the Archive.
which lists them in order of importance. It tells something about the rise of Harry.

[Phariah]

Sells' limited knowledge points to him NOT having a teacher, not not having a teacher.

I'd bet that he was self taught, using an extensive library of books, and *someone/thing* made sure those books were the real deal

Why make third eye?  Because he can.
Why go to war with Marcone?  Because Marcones in the way of his three eye trade

so how did he come up with the formula for 3eye? that is a far advanced potion. how did he get the bloodline curse? how did he get an extensive library as they would be expensive? and he was never said to have one just a few books. no he isn't self taught someone taught him specific things and set him on his path. someone had wanted Sells to do specific things, he was a tool. it is obvious.

 so no if i wanted to make a weapon that could cause problems i could capitalize on, Sells would be it. i taught him enough to make 3eye to cause havok and a spell that would wipe out his enemies without a trace. yet still be inept enough that he would be no danger to me, and i could take care of easily later on if he became a problem. so no his limited knowledge ( which is advanced knowledge to be sure ) does not point to being self taught. it points to being taught enough to be usefull.

[Jefe]

I think it is worth considering (as has been proposed before), that whoever put Victor on the path of black magic, passed out the wolf belts, etc., is a person or group of persons trying to engineer situations which would put Harry into a position to leave the White Council (or get kicked out).  This also goes for manipulation of the Red Court.  The entire war starting incident at Bianca's can be read as a situation manipulated to force Harry into actions which would get him kicked out of / severed from the White Council.

IMO, most of the antagonists Harry has faced to directly to this point (to include the Red Court in Changes) are more than likely sock puppets for a background player who would like to see Harry unaffiliated or outright hostile to the White Council, and ready for recruitment to their cause.

Also, the bloodline curse in Changes and the heart exploder in SF killed in similar ways, but the ritual in SF was NOT a bloodline curse, it used a thaumaturgic link powered by ritual sex.  I don't think it needs to be the same person teaching sells and the Red Court.  If two coaches who have never met each other both grew up knowing the rules of football and watching the same games, it is not unlikely they will both draw up similar plays.  So I don't know if the connection is necessarily there, other than Arianna getting nudged into action that involved Harry.

[Me Grimlock King]

So basically, the whole series and everything that harry has gone up against so far, has been to try to get Harry to leave the White Council, and join "someone".  I would say that sounds like overkill just to get Harry.  I also think that it was overkill to set up the outrageously powerful Bloodline spell just to take out EB, but that's me.

[Jefe]

So basically, the whole series and everything that harry has gone up against so far, has been to try to get Harry to leave the White Council, and join "someone".  I would say that sounds like overkill just to get Harry.  I also think that it was overkill to set up the outrageously powerful Bloodline spell just to take out EB, but that's me.

If that was the ONLY goal, I would agree.  It is possible to work toward a larger objective (what - ?) while having a secondary or ancillary effect of having Dresden unaffiliated as opposed to just dead.  Most of Harry's major conflicts are set up around him making a choice to violate a law of magic, do something "wrong", or suffer horribly and prevail against long odds (not the percentage play).  Cowl certainly could have killed Harry, if at no other time than when Bob got taken during DB.  The denarians have actively tried to recruit him as a strategy (as opposed to kill him outright, regardless of the possible outcomes of tactical encounters).  The climax of SF (IMO) was not the big fight at the end, it was Harry's decision to fight rather than obliterate the house just before the fight.  Everything in SF and FM point to an outside agency tryuing to manipulate events.

I am not saying it is only one group or individual.  I am not saying their primary goal is Harry's recruitment (actually I find that unlikely).  I am saying that a lot of the messes Harry has found himself lead me to believe they are not messes in and of themselves but parts of larger designs that we have not learned of yet, and that if any number of folks wanted Harry dead instead of turned, he would be dead right now.  Instead it looks as though one (not the only, but one) of the goals of the string pullers is bringing Harry over to their side.

As far as Eb goes, I agree with you.  That is why I think someone was manipulating Arianna to go that route, because it would surely get Harry involved.  The manipulator either didn't know that Harry had Winter Knight in his pocket, didn't expect it to be his choice, or it is Mab behind it and it was an elaborate plot with one intended consequence of putting Harry in extremis so he would take up the mantle.  Either way, it appears as though one goal was to get at Eb, but another goal (hence the bloodline curse and all that) was to put Harry into a position where he HAD to make a choice.  Of course, there are lots of free radicals on the battlefield not affiliated (the Eebs, frex) to the alrger design which makes life that much more difficult for Harry.

[wildone654]

and that if any number of folks wanted Harry dead instead of turned, he would be dead right now. 

well . . . .

[Jefe]

well . . . .

Ooops.  Touche.  Please insert "up until the events on the last two pages of Changes" anywhere appropriate.