[GS Spoilers] Harry's Power Ups

[Serack]

Shield bracelet. WK page 96 (novel)

If there hadn't been a war on, and if i hadn't been spending so much time drilling Molly in the fundamentals- and therefore getting in all kinds of extra practice myself- I would never have considered attempting to create such a complex focus. it was far more complicated than anything i'd done before. five years ago, it would have been beyond me completely. more to the point, five years ago, i wouldn't have been as experienced or as strongly motivated.

yes the fire pointed out a flaw in his bracelet that his enemies had started to figure out. but if he hadn't gained Molly as an apprentice he would never had increased his skill up enough to created it at this time. so yes fire gave him the idea but his time with Molly gave him the ability to create it. so if i had to decide, i would say this goes under the Molly sub-section. i mean he had the broken bracelet for awhile and didn't remake it until after he had taken Molly as apprentice.

The bolded part allows me to say that both are important, but your right that Molly's education plays a very (maybe the most) important part.  My battleship reasoning is still taking time to turn to port though, so I haven't decided to change places... yet...

But at that point every increase in his base magical usage (as opposed to soulfire, mantles, etc) from here on out would go under the Molly Subsection.  Gaining an apprentice was a major turning point in his magical education, but really has nothing to do with molly herself. 

However, one of the main points of this list is to examine things in terms of how players behind the scenes may be manipulating events so that Harry is getting stronger, and Molly becoming his apprentice does seem to be something that Harry was manipulated into by Mab

[snip]
Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. 
[/snip]

[Quantus]

The bolded part allows me to say that both are important, but your right that Molly's education plays a very (maybe the most) important part.  My battleship reasoning is still taking time to turn to port though, so I haven't decided to change places... yet...

However, one of the main points of this list is to examine things in terms of how players behind the scenes may be manipulating events so that Harry is getting stronger, and Molly becoming his apprentice does seem to be something that Harry was manipulated into by Mab

fair enough I suppose, though with those particular events you could argue just as easily that it was Lily/Summer or the WG or the Gatekeeper

[Serack]

fair enough I suppose, though with those particular events you could argue just as easily that it was Lily/Summer or the WG or the Gatekeeper

Oh, for sure.  I think it's almost as likely that there is as much of a conspiracy to help Harry get strong enough to combat The Bad Things to Come as is likely there is a conspiracy to bring about The Bad Things to Come.  I'm not even certain they are 2 different groups.

[Crinisen]

Oh, for sure.  I think it's almost as likely that there is as much of a conspiracy to help Harry get strong enough to combat The Bad Things to Come as is likely there is a conspiracy to bring about The Bad Things to Come.  I'm not even certain they are 2 different groups.

My new theory: Loki did it.

He's playing both sides to bring about Ragnaroc because that seems to be his job

[Quantus]

Actually I think Odin did it, with collaboration from Lea.  Either that or it was somebody who could know that he was going to get a direct teleportation portal (not some NN trail) back to Chicago, and would thus be able to get there in time.  Well, that and Lea's definition of "aggressive negotiations" with Odin seems like there may be more to it.

[Arjan]

Odin has been known to betray his heroes at the end so they could die in battle and go to Valhalla but I think it a little bit too early for that. And Gard was not seen near him at the end of changes.

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And also not at the first chapters of Gost story

[Piotr1600]

Serack - I LOVE this!

One thing to possibly consider... We have WOJ that one of Harry's primary 'character powers' (exclusive of in-story powers) is his ability to act as a catalyst to make *others* more that they were or (extrapolating a bit) perhaps more than they could have been before.  Does that impact or change how we look at / think about Harry's allies?

Toot may be a good example, I think.  Something about his interactions with Harry have changed him from simple dew-drop fairy to a creature with some sense of loyalty and ambition - which is sort of odd behavior, at least from what we've seen.

To know how much more powerful *Harry* gets we might need to consider how his *allies* get more powerful/knowledgeable as well...

Thoughts?

[Serack]

Serack - I LOVE this!

One thing to possibly consider... We have WOJ that one of Harry's primary 'character powers' (exclusive of in-story powers) is his ability to act as a catalyst to make *others* more that they were or (extrapolating a bit) perhaps more than they could have been before.  Does that impact or change how we look at / think about Harry's allies?

Toot may be a good example, I think.  Something about his interactions with Harry have changed him from simple dew-drop fairy to a creature with some sense of loyalty and ambition - which is sort of odd behavior, at least from what we've seen.

To know how much more powerful *Harry* gets we might need to consider how his *allies* get more powerful/knowledgeable as well...

Thoughts?

Hmmm, I might add a section for "Power Atributes" that don't fit within a timeline because they are inate, and that one will be in it.  Good suggestion.

Edit:  on 2nd thought I'm going to try adding it as sub bullets to the "born" bullet.  Oh, and here's a link to the WoJ you are thinking of.  It's very indirect, and I sent the interviewer 2 emails asking if she had any notes or anything from her interview with no responses

[sociotard]

To know how much more powerful *Harry* gets we might need to consider how his *allies* get more powerful/knowledgeable as well...

Except Murphy.  She's been offered power, yes, but she declines it.  She can take up a Sword any time she wants, but she won't.  Harry has to push and prod her to take it up any time he needs her to. 

Murphy Started out in Storm Front in charge of Special Investigations.  So, not as important as Homicide or Vice or anything, but it was her own department and she was in charge.  Then she lost that and became a mere grunt, and now she has lost that too.

Gard even offered her a shot at working for Monoc, where she might have gained special supernatural training, access to large resources, and who knows what else. (Yes, that last sentence was pure speculation on my part)

Power and influence in the mortal world? Lost.  Supernatural power.  Declined, repeatedly.  Murphy is on a downward slope.  In a series that has Free Will vs. Power as one of its themes, Murphy has chosen Free Will.

EDIT: I just read what I wrote.  Holy crap, the only time she does take power (the sword) is when Harry influences her.  He really does influence people to become stronger.

Even when it costs them a little Free Will and an angel turns them into a sock puppet.

[Phariah]

Serack - I LOVE this!

One thing to possibly consider... We have WOJ that one of Harry's primary 'character powers' (exclusive of in-story powers) is his ability to act as a catalyst to make *others* more that they were or (extrapolating a bit) perhaps more than they could have been before.  Does that impact or change how we look at / think about Harry's allies?

Toot may be a good example, I think.  Something about his interactions with Harry have changed him from simple dew-drop fairy to a creature with some sense of loyalty and ambition - which is sort of odd behavior, at least from what we've seen.

To know how much more powerful *Harry* gets we might need to consider how his *allies* get more powerful/knowledgeable as well...

Thoughts?

wow yes this is true also P1600. not only Toot. i would add in a few others tbh. Mouse, i mean apparently he shouldn't be as powerful away from his place of power. yet as he tells Lea he cheats because he has Harry.
Butters even. he now walks around w/ chalk and has a bp vest waitin for when Harry calls. he goesa from snivelling nervous to just shakey. Morty too, he gives him a boost in confidence after his first talk w/ him in GP.
and yes Murphy, she has gained more confidence facing supernatural. than add in what she has picked up from Harry, knowledge. the inheritted silver for the Loup, her knowledge about the magic dispelling when the sun rises. she has picked up things along the way that makes her far more formidable.
Molly, yes in magic it is obvious, but he also is giving her a stronger moral balance to help her and guide her. he also reunited her w/ her family to help ground her. so she has gained more control over herself which has made her stronger.
Alphas, he gave them a goal which in turn made them focus and become stronger. i mean Billy can even partially self heal now. they push to get better.

[Serack]

wow yes this is true also P1600. not only Toot. i would add in a few others tbh. Mouse, i mean apparently he shouldn't be as powerful away from his place of power. yet as he tells Lea he cheats because he has Harry.
Butters even. he now walks around w/ chalk and has a bp vest waitin for when Harry calls. he goesa from snivelling nervous to just shakey. Morty too, he gives him a boost in confidence after his first talk w/ him in GP.
and yes Murphy, she has gained more confidence facing supernatural. than add in what she has picked up from Harry, knowledge. the inheritted silver for the Loup, her knowledge about the magic dispelling when the sun rises. she has picked up things along the way that makes her far more formidable.
Molly, yes in magic it is obvious, but he also is giving her a stronger moral balance to help her and guide her. he also reunited her w/ her family to help ground her. so she has gained more control over herself which has made her stronger.
Alphas, he gave them a goal which in turn made them focus and become stronger. i mean Billy can even partially self heal now. they push to get better.

I think you might enjoy reading this old topic on the subject (another one of my "lists")

[Piotr1600]

Except Murphy.  She's been offered power, yes, but she declines it.  She can take up a Sword any time she wants, but she won't.  Harry has to push and prod her to take it up any time he needs her to.  

Murphy Started out in Storm Front in charge of Special Investigations.  So, not as important as Homicide or Vice or anything, but it was her own department and she was in charge.  Then she lost that and became a mere grunt, and now she has lost that too.

Gard even offered her a shot at working for Monoc, where she might have gained special supernatural training, access to large resources, and who knows what else. (Yes, that last sentence was pure speculation on my part)

Power and influence in the mortal world? Lost.  Supernatural power.  Declined, repeatedly.  Murphy is on a downward slope.  In a series that has Free Will vs. Power as one of its themes, Murphy has chosen Free Will.

EDIT: I just read what I wrote.  Holy crap, the only time she does take power (the sword) is when Harry influences her.  He really does influence people to become stronger.

Even when it costs them a little Free Will and an angel turns them into a sock puppet.

Agreed, but with some caveats...
Murphy-as-standard-vanilla-cop was relatively powerless vs. supernatural threats so long as she stayed within the current legal (and mental!) world-view.
She only got to be able to be effective when Harry changed her worldview (essentially educating her about the real supernatural)

Murphy as "not-normal" cop (awareness of supernatural milieu and a much closer friendship with Harry) was able to put the boot in a faery queen's (Aurora) avatar, distract/disable a supernatural assassin, stare down a 2 story tall Gruff, shoot the crap out of RCVs without panicking, and so on. That all comes from association with Harry and getting to know his character intimately.
She broke multiple state & federal laws essentially just to help Harry.

Now ex-cop Murphy has access to a VASTLY powerful artifact, and yet is

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still perfectly capable of taking out creatures waaay out of her weight class without it

. (Aftermath spoiler)  

Is she comfortable having/holding all that power? No, I think your sock puppet comment is dead-on & I think that's exactly why she tries to minimize using anything that is not pure vanilla - there are costs and side effects after all...

[Arjan]

I remember reading some word of jim. The empowering is not only for his friends.
His enemies gain power influenced by him as well. Bianca, Lara, Marcone

[Serack]

I remember reading some word of jim. The empowering is not only for his friends.
His enemies gain power influenced by him as well. Bianca, Lara, Marcone

I don't remember Jim saying it, but I pointed it out in the topic linked in my last post.

[lovejoy69]

Agreed, but with some caveats...
Murphy-as-standard-vanilla-cop was relatively powerless vs. supernatural threats so long as she stayed within the current legal (and mental!) world-view.
She only got to be able to be effective when Harry changed her worldview (essentially educating her about the real supernatural)

Murphy and Susan, Molly and Toot - they each contributed to Harry's additional growth/wisdom (thus more power) in one way we often have only touched on obliquely.

The Harry of Storm Front and Fool Moon was more than a little reluctant to disclose any information about the supernatural world to vanillas, or to those with less magical power than he. That outlook could have, in a different personality, have stemmed from a desire to keep others powerless and therefore less than himself as a wizard. In Harry's case, it arose from his reluctance to have others suffer fear and injury. Harry worried that if they knew a little then they might get overly bold and inclined to tangle with opponents who were out of their league. He was being too paternalistic, simply too overly protective.

Part of Harry's maturing, part of his increased strength, has been as he has come to the painful realization that he can't keep everyone safe on his own. Harry realizes that some of the bad outcomes which befell Murphy, Butters, Will and the Alphas, Kim Delaney, Lydia, even Molly and the Carpenters were directly caused by Harry not teaching them what could have helped them to better defend themselves.

Harry had to learn the hard way that although they aren't capable of handling what he does, of ever becoming wizard-level practitioners, they're better off to have as much knowledge as they can utilize. Susan wouldn't have gone uninvited to Bianca's ball had she known what she was risking by doing so.