Nukes

[Richard_Chilton]

This is an aside, but since people have been talking about deadly weapons...

There's an old game called Warpworld (basically the gods came back, most tech doesn't work, etc - slightly Rifts like in setting but with better rules) where the gods had made a fantastic sword.  A diamond blade that was enchanted to the point where it could cut through practically anything and kill almost anything with one swing.  They released it on the world, got some popcorn, and watched the fun of the mortals fighting over it, laughing as it changed hands.

See it's the ultimate hand to hand weapon - but doesn't grant you any defensive ability and it's only useful in hand to hand situations.  A squad of archers could easily take the current welder out - and there would be a new fight over who would weld the "ultimate weapon".  Anyone holding it has a huge target painted on them.  They become unbeatable hand to hand but a target of missile weapons, magic, poison - basically everything except hand to hand.

Thinking about it, I now want to make a sword that's a 40 stress weapon and see if the players are wise enough to avoid it.

Richard

[Todjaeger]

Oooh I've been inspired by this talk of nukes being plot devices.

What about an enchanted sword in a game or a lightsaber or something that spells instant death if it makes contact?

Like... a soul sucking sword or something.

That would be intense!  I just don't know whether my players would like it or hate it.  Probably hate it... but then again most of them want to play a new character now that they know the system better.

What better way to kill off a character than be killed by a Jedi? 

If you're looking for something which kills instantly and absolutely, it already exists.  It's called mordite.

Also, something which people keep seeming to miss or misunderstand, is that when the device detonates, the 'explosion' is actually the reaction of the surrounding environment to the sudden release of massive amounts of energy.  All this discussion of overpressure, pressure waves, etc is essentially how the energy released via fission or fusion ends up dissipating, via raditation (EM/thermal and particle) kinetic, etc.

Now the RAW might allow for a character with enough Fate points to be at Ground Zero when a nuclear device detonates and have them survive...  In reality, no, that wouldn't happen.  As Jim Butcher has commented on more than once, while the works are fiction, things like magic still follows basic laws of physics.  Magical fire is still fire, it's hot, it burns , it spreads, etc.

Also, to parapharse a Q&A I read years ago in Dragon magazine, back when TSR still offered the Marvel Superheroes RPG...
Q: "But what if Aunt May stabbed Galactus with a kitchen knife and spent 100 Karma points to achieve a Kill Result, Aunt May would've killed Galactus."
A:  "Aunt May would never be in a position to have 100 Karma points to spend stabbing Galactus..."

Basically, things don't survive being 'hit with nuclear weapons' which when you get down to it, are devices that breakdown and/or reassemble the basic building blocks of the universe.  Instead, things survive by avoiding being hit/directly hit but them.

-Cheers

[finnmckool]

I concur that characters could survive a nuke. But not like some of you guys are saying. It's not like the survivors of the bombs absorbed the damage and walked off. They got lucky at being behind cover. You survive a nuke by not being next to it when it goes off, not because you're tougher than the bomb. Yeah, fate points can save you from a nuke. But not by making you bomb proof. By making you run, or make smart decisions or "Hey look! A lead lined refrigerator!" I mean, Indy clearly dropped some SERIOUS points to get that and even I was declaring some hard shenanigans on that one in the theater. And that's a movie which doesn't need to follow rules. But as far as, "The nuke went off but you soaked up the damaged and walked away, you steaming, gooey mutant you." I'm just not cool with that. And if my GM has a monster walk away from a nuke? I may kill him with my dice bag. Just because if I go to the trouble of arranging a nuke attack on a critter, I expect my cleverness to be rewarded. I nuke a monster and it keeps coming I think my character might just save it the trouble and eat a bullet, because really...what else do you THROW? Actually, that's starting to sound dramatically awesome. But still...I'd be a bit pissed.

[BumblingBear]

Hmm...  this convo got very literal very fast.

[Tedronai]

It's not like the survivors of the bombs absorbed the damage and walked off. They got lucky at being behind cover. You survive a nuke by not being next to it when it goes off, not because you're tougher than the bomb. Yeah, fate points can save you from a nuke. But not by making you bomb proof. By making you run, or make smart decisions or "Hey look! A lead lined refrigerator!"

This.

[Silverblaze]

So...physical immunity...says immunity right?

 Is that power Nuke Proof or Not Nuke Proof?

Also, Physical Immunity with the catch of nuclear weapons is going to happen in someone's game as a result of this thread. 

For shame! -  to all involved. (99.999999999% kidding on this last statement)

[Tedronai]

Nukes being plot devices, ask Plot.

[Sanctaphrax]

Physical Immunity should definitely apply against nukes. Unless the catch causes trouble.

Richard_Chilton's idea sounds quite interesting to me.

Todjaeger and finnmckool make excellent points as long as we are talking about characters without Mythic Toughness.

If you toss out a nuke and fail to kill what you hit, then your GM is probably making the game too hard for you.

PS: I really really hated the fridge thing.

[JayTee]

EDIT: Posted in the wrong thread, sorry!

[fantazero]

1. Where is this Nuke going off? Arent the Mortal authorities going to get involved. Isnt that what we DONT want to happen? The White Council would look down on Wizards nuking super naturals. Also the entire world would get involved with a nuclear attack, you could cause WW3.

2. If your Character can survive a nuke, wheres the difficultly? You're a god. That's why Superman isnt more popular, its hard to write stories or relate to him because he is TOO powerful, all the best stories involve either putting him in situations where his powers dont/cant work, or taking his powers away all together. Batman is a better character because he has some James Bond gadgets and stuff but the end of the day, he's just a man. If I told you Superman stopped an Asteroid from hitting the earth, you would yawn, but if I told you Robin the Boy Wonder did it, you would ask HOW?!

3. The bombs that went off during WW2 are nothing compared to what we have now

Fire cracker vs Truck bomb.

4. Even if you did have a handfull of Fate Points and could survive the blast, whats the mental, physical and social stress of Plasma Hot Air, Radiation, Sunburn ect.
Mental "I just saw a town of people melt"
Physical "I'm burned and scarred all over"
SOcial "No one wants to be my friend because I glow in the dark and make people sterile."

5. How got the nuke? Did a PC bring it? What do I need to role in resources and contacts to get a Nuke? Also I would need scholarship to USE the damn thing. And atleast a stunt of "I worked on a nuclear submarine" or something

6. Whats the delivery  method?

This whole thing is silly

[Belial666]

If your Character can survive a nuke, wheres the difficultly? You're a god.

Nicodemus can survive nukes. In fact, he's immune to them (says so on his sheet). So are all ghosts because they're immune to all attacks they don't acknowledge and a nuke is too fast and explodes too far for them to do so - even if they wanted to, for some reason.  And both ghosts and Nicodemus have been defeated in the series. Repeatedly.



Also, my current character in a PbP game could survive a nuke due to death being a nuisance to her. Nuke her and 5 mins later she comes back and she'll be radioactive. That doesn't mean there is no challenge in the game. In fact, I love some of the challenges in that campaign.

[fantazero]

Nicodemus can survive nukes. In fact, he's immune to them (says so on his sheet). So are all ghosts because they're immune to all attacks they don't acknowledge and a nuke is too fast and explodes too far for them to do so - even if they wanted to, for some reason.  And both ghosts and Nicodemus have been defeated in the series. Repeatedly.



Also, my current character in a PbP game could survive a nuke due to death being a nuisance to her. Nuke her and 5 mins later she comes back and she'll be radioactive. That doesn't mean there is no challenge in the game. In fact, I love some of the challenges in that campaign.

Existing on another plane of existance that bleed through to the earthly realm isnt the same as surviving a Nuclear Reaction.

So Nickleheads rope wont burn in the heat? I want a WOJ on this

[Belial666]

So Nickleheads rope wont burn in the heat? I want a WOJ on this

That is also in the book. As an artifact, The Hangman's Noose is indestructible except by a ritual perversion of its own purpose. Just like Swords of the Cross, The Blackstaff, the Denarian coins and other similar artifacts. Most IoPs get this for no extra refresh BTW.


In short, creatures and objects from a level of power and up aren't killable by nukes. Some of them aren't killable at all, even if you're supposed to be their "catch". The Fallen and the Walkers for example.

[Haru]

A large part of an explosion is, that is involves heat, or more specific: fire. Fire is a cleansing power, as stated in both the novels and the rpg books. A fire of that magnitude would certainly be enough for me to count as a cleansing ritual on an IoP. And once the noose is gone, so is Nicodemus. The only thing that will remain is the coin, not because it is better enchanted, but for me it exists on another level of plot.

[fantazero]

Honestly a nuke is like throwing something into the sun. If the fire of the sun isnt enough to kill things, but sunrise is, then something is wrong.