Internalizing magic items?

[Belial666]

The system allows one to externalize powers by putting them on Items of Power, giving a small rebate for a concealable item and a larger rebate for an obvious item. Now, when comparing the magic of the system with other types of systems, mostly DnD, I was considering a way to reflect DnD and similar spellcasters; people that could cast a lot of spells but had a limit of spells per day and could recharge their magic only through a lengthy process.
So a question presented itself; should it be possible to internalize magic item effects? Sort of the reverse of IoPs, a wizard would pay extra refresh to use the enchanted items as internal rather than external abilities;

[-1] Innate Wizardry: you no longer need physical items to carry enchantments that take up a single enchanted item slot each; you may apply those directly to yourself and use them as innate powers. Naturally, you cannot transfer those enchantments to other people for them to use - though you can still craft normal items for them.

[-2] Greater Innate Wizardry:  you no longer need physical items to carry enchantments at all; you may apply any of them to yourself, regardless of the number of slots. This power replaces and is otherwise identical to "Innate Wizardry".


1) Are these powers balanced?
2) Would these powers be acceptable in your game flavor-wise to represent a more preparatory form of magic?

[BumblingBear]

I don't think it's balanced.

The whole reason that focus items are more powerful that refinements is because enchanted items/focus items can be lost, destroyed, or stolen.

With the internalization power, that would negate this weakness and also allow a player to just keep stacking focus items/numbers.

With RAW, a wizard needs a pretty big physical object for larger focus items.

I would allow this power in my game, but it would have to cost at least 3 refresh.

[Belial666]

Not focus items; enchanted items. Focus items will still work normally.


Also, keep in mind that focus and enchanted items do not have to be very obvious in the first place, provided they do not use too many slots. For example, a ring or bracelet focus could be worn under gloves or have a veil put on it to make it hard to notice. An anklet focus could be worn inside your shoes.

[EdgeOfDreams]

I think it works alright.  It still doesn't quite match up to the idea of spells per day because casters can take mental stress to keep using enchanted items even after all the charges are spent.

That said, compared to the additional power they could get by picking up one or two more points of Refinement, this seems balanced. The only scenario I'd be wary of is when this sort of caster gets captured.  Normally, you can severely weaken a caster by stripping them of their equipment.  Although, I suppose that's part of the whole point of these powers, isn't it?

[ReturnToOne]

What about literally internalizing an enchanted item?

like snakey boy mentioned in dead beat.

[Belial666]

Well, those that only take up 1 slot are the size of rings, earrings, thumb-sized gems and the like. They could easily be surgically implanted.

Also, someone with the Flesh Mask ability can easily cover most of their enchanted items under their skin with only -1 refresh. (not to mention all the other bonuses) However, that is somewhat distasteful in polite circles.

[ReturnToOne]

should there be any extra detriments to something like getting your entire skeleton enchanted (for say armor based enchantments)?
like should it require an aspect like "gruesome scars" getting compelled in social conflicts?

(edit)
I am interested in this as a GM(offline) because one of my players may take this path.

[Tedronai]

This should probably require SOME sort of aspect in some way related to how the magic was 'internalized'
and if that involved horrible disfiguration so as to physically access the skeletal structure during the 'enchantment' process, then sure, something like 'gruesome scars' might be appropriate

[Belial666]

You can't enchant your bones. OK, you can BUT it's going to cause problems. Bones are not unchanging things in a body and not just for structural support, no matter what Wolverine comics will have you believe.

Bones shift, bend, stretch and turn at every move you make; that is how your body absorbs stress from all motion. If they can't, that stress will go to muscles, ligaments and organs, causing damage. And if they can and are enchanted items, that twisting-around might impair their function.

Bones are continually built up and destroyed at the same time as a way for your body to store and recover salts, minerals and other substances. If they can't, you die a fairly painful death. If they can, those enchantments are not going to last long.

Bones are hollow and many important things happen inside them, not the least of which is the growth of new blood cells. If you fill them up, you die a fairly painful death.

[ReturnToOne]

was just looking for some president to use if it came up. sorry if I didn't think it all the way through first, but at least the concept is solid.

would probably be done with the aid of a healer type and enchanter type as justification, and be in the form of something not quite as extreme.

Or maybe I'll just suggest some henna tattoos.

[Belial666]

He could surgically implant magic items into his body, much like metal plates and nails and other things can be added IRL. He just couldn't use his own bones.

[Haru]

[-1] Innate Wizardry: you no longer need physical items to carry enchantments that take up a single enchanted item slot each; you may apply those directly to yourself and use them as innate powers. Naturally, you cannot transfer those enchantments to other people for them to use - though you can still craft normal items for them.

Why wouldn't you just buy them as an innate power, then? Would make much more sense to me. You could buy a power and justify it with thaumaturgy pretty easily, you studied hard and you found a way to give your magic sort of an upgrade. Depending on the sort of enchanted item the player wants to use this power on, this might be a better way to go, because you would mostly get much more out of it than with an enchanted item.

I don't really like the power you described. Create a character with ritual (crafting) and this power, put the remaining refresh into enchanted items, and you got an evocator who can shoot out the first round of evocations without any casting-stress and every other cast after that will only cost him 1 stress. Of course he is limited in the spells he can do, but most of the times a wizard will probably just use his rote spells anyway. And that much refresh will let you get some specialized spells, too. Of course you can create such a character with externalized items, but that's the whole point, they can be taken away from him, that is his weakness.

Of course you could implant small items, but I would not charge refresh for that. Maybe an aspect to reflect this. They can still be removed, and it is going to be pretty painful when they are.

[Belial666]

Because there aren't any powers that can do what magic item rules can. As for a submerged enchanter relying on his items and having the weakness of removability, someone with Thaumaturgy and 6 refinements can have 14 potionlike item slots at power 9 with 5 uses each (so 70 spells per day), leave his slots open and simply declare that he has the right items with him with the Lore skill. Even if you remove the ones he's declared he has on him, as soon as he can get back to a safe place and stock up he can start declaring again if he has slots open. And even if you take away all of them, he can still rebuild his entire stock the next day.

The same guy that needs to spend 1 refresh to internalize that magic either drops his items from 14 to 10 or drops their power to 8and frequency to 4 from 9 and 5 respectively - which is a pretty hefty power decrease.

[Becq]

I'm with Haru.

This seems like an elaborate way of making spellcasting cost no mental strain, which strikes me as a bad idea.

As to the idea of actually physically implanting enchanted items, I think that the human body would probably act as a threshold of sorts, which would render such items useless.  Well, either that or the energy from activating one would tear its way out of the body.  Or both.

At least, I think this is respect to DFRPG.  On the other hand, it could be a useful mechanism for use in a non-DFRPG game which was based on the DFRPG system.  D&D Files RPG, anyone?

[EdgeOfDreams]

This seems like an elaborate way of making spellcasting cost no mental strain, which strikes me as a bad idea.

Except that it really doesn't, at least not enough to be unbalanced.  Enchanted items are way more limited than standard casting because the item does the exact same thing every time you use it.  I've got an artificer style character I'm running right now who has a force glove.  The glove does a 4-shift, single-target Spirit Evocation attack targeted with Discipline, 3 times per session (He has Lore 4, Discipline 3, and spent 2 slots on this item).  Now, that's a pretty slick item, but it's way less versatile than someone with Channeling(Spirit) because he *can't* turn it into an AoE, do maneuvers with it, etc. etc.  Yeah, he gets a few free castings, but after that it costs mental stress if he wants to keep using it.