whats the line? *too powerfull*

[fantazero]

So my character is a Gun Guy. He runs guns, its his high concept and everything.

So is it crazy for him to always have access to some Big guns. Like Ak47s (Weapon 3) Bear Hunting Revolvers (S&W 500) (Weapon 4?) or a RPG or 50 cal Rifle with incendiary rounds (Weapon 4 or 5?)
I have pretty good resources and craftsmanship.

Should I be spending fate chips for this stuff?
Same thing with special Ammo, I mean if this was me, and the Dresden stuff was real, I would get my hallow points and fill the cavity with silver.

So what I worry about is being seen as "Cheap" or "munchkin-ing", I've had NO problems so far with either of this in my wonderfull group and our excellent gm. Its more of a personal thing.
So for example

I have a 50 Cal Sniper Rife with a Scope, I spend one round Aiming, and use my Stunt "Scope User" which makes it pretty easy for me to pass a Aim roll.
Then the next round, I shoot the badguy, with my guns being 5 *assuming a Rolled a neutral* +2 for Aiming, Plus +4 for weapon, and I spend a Fate point to tag an aspect +2?.
Thats pretty good, Wizard Level to be braggy. But I was wondering If I could throw in a Naval Gazing Maneuver in there? If so what would I do, and when would I do it? Do I do it on the Aiming round, or what?
Also would this be against the spirit of the game?

[citadel97501]

I can definitely see a naval gazing maneuver in there, perhaps slowing your heart beat and firing between beats like some world class snipers try to do. 

[BumblingBear]

That's only wizard level if a wizard is not playing very well.

As for navel gazing maneuvers, we had this conversation in my group a little bit ago.

Basically, if a player is stacking a bunch of aspects, that is well within RAW AND the spirit of the game.  In the books, Kinkaid would not have been able to take out Denarians with one shot if he were not stacking aspects (mechanically).

If the GM does not want a player or a bad guy stacking aspects, this is where compels come into play.  Sure, you can buy off a compel, but to do so would cost 1 fate point each that you could just use for a +2 anyway, and stacking aspects can get costly.

It's 100% within the rules AND the spirit of the game to stack aspects.  What I do now as a GM is compel whenever a PC is doing something I don't want them to do.  That way, if they buy off my compel, they've earned the right to do whatever it is I don't want them to do.

There's nothing wrong with stacking aspects.  On the contrary, in my opinion it is /stupid/ to just attack piecemeal and only do 1-2 stress at a time.

In real world terms, attacking without stacking aspects would be like shooting at something without aiming.

The thing is, I think it all comes down to what is thematically appropriate.

If your character tried doing a navel gazing maneuver with a monster chomping on him, as a GM I'd rule you'd have to beat a 4-6 to make it stick.

If you're sniping, it would make sense to stack a bunch of aspects.

These days when I am GMing, it's not raw but I make each consecutive NGM harder to do if it's done with the same skill.  That way a character cannot have 4 NGM all done with... discipline or something.

Hope that helps.

[fantazero]

last game, we had a gator chomping on someone. Everyone else was running around or shooting at it, I took a turn to Aim, and then the next turn to shoot, and tagged an aspect.
So if appropriate I could tag several aspects at the cost of a fate point per aspect?
I was wondering if there was a place where I could do a Naval Gazing maneuver, and what it would be? Say I'm Aiming and a the maneuver  "Weaver Stance" or "Controlled Breathing"? And then the next round shoot?

[zenten]

last game, we had a gator chomping on someone. Everyone else was running around or shooting at it, I took a turn to Aim, and then the next turn to shoot, and tagged an aspect.
So if appropriate I could tag several aspects at the cost of a fate point per aspect?
I was wondering if there was a place where I could do a Naval Gazing maneuver, and what it would be? Say I'm Aiming and a the maneuver  "Weaver Stance" or "Controlled Breathing"? And then the next round shoot?

Yup, that's right.

[BumblingBear]

last game, we had a gator chomping on someone. Everyone else was running around or shooting at it, I took a turn to Aim, and then the next turn to shoot, and tagged an aspect.
So if appropriate I could tag several aspects at the cost of a fate point per aspect?
I was wondering if there was a place where I could do a Naval Gazing maneuver, and what it would be? Say I'm Aiming and a the maneuver  "Weaver Stance" or "Controlled Breathing"? And then the next round shoot?

Well, technically when you're using a fate point, you are invoking.  Not tagging.

Correct terminology in the fate system really helps understanding, I think.  A tag is a free invoke.

And yes.

And yes.

You can use a fate point for every relevant aspect.  They can be your own high concept or aspects, scene aspects, consequences on the bad guy, etc.  Any aspect can be invoked using a fate point as long as you can come up with a thematically appropriate reason for it.

For instance, if you had an aspect on the scene, "Bright and shiny" or "Nice day out", you could use a fate point on it in order to get an extra +2... (because you can see better).

And yes, you could have made a NGM after aiming.  I think it would have been appropriate too.

Sitting there for 6 rounds stacking NGM while a buddy is getting chomped on probably would not have been thematically appropriate, but 2-3 rounds to prepare before an attack is pretty common in my game.

Then again, we have a decent amount of combat so everyone gets a good amount of practice.

[Lanir]

Personally I think the line is anytime you find yourself trying to leave everyone in the dust during a major component of the game. If your game doesn't focus on combat as much, it isn't necessarily a big deal if your gun guy is running around sniping bad guys during combats and the rest of your group looks a lot more like the were-mouse character in the RPG sample setting. In fact, if most of the game is social or investigative in nature you may start to feel like your sniper is underpowered because all he does is blow things away. In games like that the bad guys are mostly mooks so your talents are overkill. And gunning down the big bad guy isn't necessarily an attractive option.

It sounds like that isn't a problem in your group, just thought it was worth a mention. It's not so much how good or bad you are at combat. It's how well you share the spotlight in areas that your game and your gaming group focus on.

[false_tautology]

You're spending a finite resource (fate points), so it balances out. Either you've taken a lot of compels or haven't been spending points to get to the point where you can spend 3 or 4 fate for one shot!

Had a guy a session ago get near a 20 stress hit with a sniper rife (weapon:4). That's what a sniper rifle is for, though: killin' guys.

[sinker]

Hey, dealing 15-20 stress on a single glorious hit is what being pure mortal's all about right?

[Belial666]

And spellcasters. A caster really focused in evocation can do weapon 10 control 10 attacks by submerged. Also, a supernaturally strong, supernaturally tough guy with a flaming sword can do weapon 9, attack 7.



Therefore, I don't think rocket-launchers are overpowered. They deal half the damage per hit of combat-focused supernaturals in submerged. You don't know pain until you've been hit by a half-giant wielding a car.

[BumblingBear]

And spellcasters. A caster really focused in evocation can do weapon 10 control 10 attacks by submerged. Also, a supernaturally strong, supernaturally tough guy with a flaming sword can do weapon 9, attack 7.



Therefore, I don't think rocket-launchers are overpowered. They deal half the damage per hit of combat-focused supernaturals in submerged. You don't know pain until you've been hit by a half-giant wielding a car.

I completely agree.

I keep trying to communicate to my players just how powerful they are at submerged compared to "normals", and I keep feeling like I'm failing to do so.

The other day, I had some mook thugs attack the group, and one player was enough to mow through them.  The problem for me was that it took so long since each mook needed an action to take out.  It was super boring to GM.

Next time, I think I am just going to consolidate the mooks into one attack/defense.

[EdgeOfDreams]

The other day, I had some mook thugs attack the group, and one player was enough to mow through them.  The problem for me was that it took so long since each mook needed an action to take out.  It was super boring to GM.

Next time, I think I am just going to consolidate the mooks into one attack/defense.

Suggest to your players that they use spray attacks against mooks. Speeds things up quite a bit.

[InFerrumVeritas]

So is it crazy for him to always have access to some Big guns. Like Ak47s (Weapon 3) Bear Hunting Revolvers (S&W 500) (Weapon 4?) or a RPG or 50 cal Rifle with incendiary rounds (Weapon 4 or 5?)
I have pretty good resources and craftsmanship.

Do you have a stunt that gives you a bonus to having guns?  If not, I'd ask for a fate point to declare that you had the gun (or a resources/contacts roll).  After that, you've got it so I wouldn't ask for it every round.  Story wise, you'd have problems with the authorities if you were caught, as normal.

Should I be spending fate chips for this stuff?
Same thing with special Ammo, I mean if this was me, and the Dresden stuff was real, I would get my hallow points and fill the cavity with silver.

I'd let you declare that you had ammo at the beginning of a session or before you went off and did something for free (or a roll).  In combat?  You're spending a fate point and probably only have a finite amount of it.  It encourages preparation, planning, and doesn't mitigate powers like Sacred Guardian and Swords of the Cross.

I have a 50 Cal Sniper Rife with a Scope, I spend one round Aiming, and use my Stunt "Scope User" which makes it pretty easy for me to pass a Aim roll.
Then the next round, I shoot the badguy, with my guns being 5 *assuming a Rolled a neutral* +2 for Aiming, Plus +4 for weapon, and I spend a Fate point to tag an aspect +2?.

Remember, the +4 for weapon is to damage, but not to your attack roll.

Thats pretty good, Wizard Level to be braggy. But I was wondering If I could throw in a Naval Gazing Maneuver in there? If so what would I do, and when would I do it? Do I do it on the Aiming round, or what?
Also would this be against the spirit of the game?

Navel gazing maneuvers take their own turn.  The order would likely be NGM, Aim, Fire.  They are a maneuver and thus take an action.  Not against the spirit of the game.  You're taking time to build up a good action.

[Becq]

The examples you gave seem entirely reasonable.  I tend to be of the opinion that there should be a limit to the number of aspects that can be built up via maneuvers (ie, no generating 27 different variations on the themes of 'aimed' and 'centered', possibly by string multiple 'really's in front), but your examples seem fine.  If you have a solid story for getting an RPG, more power to you ... though keep in mind it's not a particularly concealable weapon, and there might be distinct disadvantages to it being noticed.  But if the Wizards get to carry around bazookas in their head, why shouldn't other characters be allowed the same?  And the bazooka-wielder even has a slight advantage when it comes to air travel.  He only gets arrested, whereas the Wizard is just as likely to survive just long enough to reach the scene of the crash...

Of course, things like armaments and power levels should be decided by the table.  Keep in mind that your opposition will likely scale to your capabilities.

[UmbraLux]

I tend to be of the opinion that there should be a limit to the number of aspects that can be built up via maneuvers (ie, no generating 27 different variations on the themes of 'aimed' and 'centered', possibly by string multiple 'really's in front), but your examples seem fine. 

I agree - tend to set a loose limit of one aspect per skill per person...which may be further limited by time.