Author Topic: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?  (Read 10563 times)

Offline Sanctaphrax

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What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« on: June 05, 2011, 05:00:40 AM »
The title says it all.

Most Play-By-Post games die pretty quickly, but some last a long time. I'm trying to work out what separates the long-lived sort from the rest.

My current hypothesis is that it's the GM. Every game will encounter problems and most will lose players. A persistent PbP GM keeps the game going anyway.

Could be wrong, though. Hence the thread.

For reference, here's my PbP history:

-I've GM'ed Enduring The Apocalypse for a little over six months. Which is a really long time by the standards of this board. Along the way we lost 1 player to a nasty little incident, 1 to real life trouble, and 1 to god-knows-what. We've also had a player incapacitated for a month with the flu and frequent slow posting from just about everyone. But I made a point of nagging people constantly, and my efforts have been rewarded. It helps that two new players have joined and that my players are generally excellent.

-I was involved with the MMPbP. It went well until the guy behind it all ended up in the hospital. Then it just died.

-I'm a player in Terror In Twin Cities, a fairly new game. It's been stalled because of a busy GM.

So, what do the rest of you think is the way to make a Play-By-Post game last?

Offline Katarn

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2011, 05:19:50 AM »
I've been wondering the same thing.  My thoughts:

1)  a dedicated GM.  Of the 4 games I played before GM'ing my own, 3 died due to the GM losing interest early on.  Staying on top of the game allows the players to play- they literally cannot go on without you.

2)  good plot hook.  A unique and intriguing plot hook/setting (such as the apocalypse or a plucky band of vampires  ;D ) keeps the individuals playing interested.

3)  dedicated players.  You need several players that make up the soul of your game, that continually play and get invested.  Be prepared to lose a few players, but you need those strong ones (it's gotten to the point where I'm keeping a list of players I know are dedicated in case I run another game  :) )

4)  renewable players.  This is a cheap tactic somewhat.  I had about 8 people interested in my WCV game.  I put them on standby in case people quit.  As such, my game has had 8 players, but only 4-6 at a time (3 replacements I've phased in, with more still interested).  This can break continuity and momentum somewhat, use sparingly if at all.

5)  time of year.  This seems silly, but people are outside more in the summer (shockingly).  Since May this board has slowed way down, and it's harder to keep interest as a result.  Colder, indoor months are better for dedicated games.

Offline JayTee

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2011, 07:29:49 AM »
I'm a player in Terror In Twin Cities.

There is a game set in the Twin Cities and I wasn't aware of this? I frigging LIVE there! XD

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 09:47:05 AM »
I agree with the OP.  I really think after much observation that a persistant/dedicated GM is necessary.

I think if a GM is not dedicated to a game, they should not start it.  I believe most games that die start with great intentions, but even in person games need a GM who is willing to put work into the game.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Mindflayer94

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 12:14:20 PM »
I was involved with the MMPbP. It went well until the guy behind it all ended up in the hospital. Then it just died.

That's dark humor
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Offline MijRai

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 02:29:02 PM »
I actually ran through all of the games that died. When I did so, I think I discovered... 6-7 out of 10 games ended due to the GM. Whether they quit, dissapeared (the most common), did something wrong, or something else.
Don't make me drop a turkey on you...

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Offline Team8Mum

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 04:09:07 PM »
I've run a lot of PBeM and play by post games over the years, the one things I have always avoided was any hint of game mechanics -
The most successful and long running ones have all had one critical aspect in common;
They have all revolved around people tell their characters stories in the style and pace they want, with other people's players turning up as 'bit parts' in the other persons plot and only with permission. (In many ways they are more 'MUSHes' than 'games')
However this way if a player drops out it does not strand others mid game. In fact 2 of these games have carried on without the ref for long periods of time when my  real life got in the way and I didn't have time to supervise/ write anything.
I would HATE to be a character in one of the stories I write -
and then there are the days when it looks too much like I AM!

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 05:04:02 PM »
@Katarn: That rings very true with me. Especially the bit about the renewable players. I'd be interested in seeing that list, by the way.

@JayTee: Yep. Check out the PbP forum for details.

@BumblingBear: Amen.

@Mindflayer94: Wasn't trying to be funny...but now that I reread what I wrote, how did I miss that?

@MijRai: Wait...all of the games that died? How many is all? If you've got stories, I'd be glad to hear.

@Team8Mum: Wish I could run games like that.

Offline Llayne

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 05:35:28 PM »
As a GM of a failed game here I can agree with Sancta... it's all about the GM. A player can get busy in real life and it's just a speed bump. The game will adjust, get a new player, and generally keep moving... if the GM puts in the effort and makes it happen.

If the GM get's too busy or doesn't fully commit, it's pretty much a done deal. I applaud anybody who takes up the mantle and tries to GM, but you should be aware that it's work. A lot of times it's easy and fun work, other times it's down right hard. Either way it takes time and effort to do it right.

Offline Team8Mum

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 05:47:58 PM »
@Team8Mum: Wish I could run games like that.
The secret is you don't -The players do you just edit the plots together afterwards to smooth out any paradox they have inadvertently created :)
The trick is to do it on a wiki or googledocs or similar set up where every one can edit everyone's else's posts that way if some one has your character going something 'Wrong' because you wouldn't do it that way (or more commonly say it that way -I keep forgetting Lee never swears) you and rewrite to fit the character concept and correct things.
I would HATE to be a character in one of the stories I write -
and then there are the days when it looks too much like I AM!

Offline MijRai

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 05:54:35 PM »
Here is a list of dead games in rough order of death (newest to oldest), and my general opinion on how they died.

Las Vegas- Players
Tampa- GM
Seattle 2- GM
New Orleans- GM
Galveston- Dunno
Miami- GM & Players
New York 2- GM
WWII- GM
Tuscon- GM
Saint Louis- Players & GM
Raleigh- GM
London- GM
Seattle 1- GM
Roswell- GM
Los Angeles- GM
New York 1- GM
Houston- Dunno
Seoul- Dunno

So, out of 18 games, 14 died in relation to the GM. Over 2/3rds of the games ended that way. Now, not all of those are the GMs' faults. A number ended due to real life stuff. Others dissapeared without a word. Not so much justification there.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 06:00:05 PM by MijRai »
Don't make me drop a turkey on you...

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Offline tordon

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 06:11:42 PM »
I definitely agree that GM involvement is critical in keeping a PbP alive.  I was involved in the Tampa game that was pretty successful until our GM had to drop out.  One of the things that seemed to keep the game alive was not waiting for everyone to respond to the thread before the GM posted.  It kept the action going, even if only for one character, that allowed the story to keep moving.  I think it also may have helped to make sure other players responded when they could.

Offline Katarn

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 06:27:00 PM »
@MijRai:  I concur with you entirely on that list (of those games, I've looked at most of 'em before trying to run my own).  I think the problem is sometimes the GM feels unappreciated, or far more likely and unfortunate, loses interest.  My DnD DM had the same problem; we would get up to our necks in intrigue or a war, then he would grow bored, and it would quickly devolve into a final battle against the long-hidden foe.

I definitely agree that GM involvement is critical in keeping a PbP alive.  I was involved in the Tampa game that was pretty successful until our GM had to drop out.  One of the things that seemed to keep the game alive was not waiting for everyone to respond to the thread before the GM posted.  It kept the action going, even if only for one character, that allowed the story to keep moving.  I think it also may have helped to make sure other players responded when they could.
Tampa was a good game, and giving active players/GM flexibility was the main reason that went longer than a lot of games.  Combat can be fouled up by turn order; it happened in Tampa somewhat and most other PbP.  A flexible schedule (ex: you need to post within X hours of the person ahead of you, or else your turn is delayed and the order adjusted) could fix that problem, but it's rather harsh.


@Sanctaphrax:  I'll PM it to you  :)

Offline ZMiles

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 06:44:25 PM »
1. The GM. If the GM goes away, the plot will have a lot of trouble continuing. Even if the GM remains, if they choose too lenient of a gaming style ('Monty Hall' GMs) it can get boring, and too sadistic or restrictive can kill interest.
2. Players. Even a great GM can't necessarily hold things together if multiple players leave. If enough leave, most of the city/NPCs will need to be redesigned (e.g., in FtF, since 4/5 of the original cast has left, most of the NPCs and folks that were developed in the city itself aren't really applicable anymore). At some point it becomes more useful to just do another 'setting the scene' round where the city and characters are setup. There's also the issue of where good 'jumping in and out' points are; if players leave during a sequence where it's not plausible for new players to be added, the whole thing can bog down and make it take longer to get to a point where new people can enter, which increases the chances of game death.
Another note on players -- players whose posts are hard to read/use poor grammar can drag down a game, simply because others won't always be as inclined to read or respond to such posts.
3. Consistency of posting. The longest game that I'm aware of on the board is the chat game, which meets twice a week at set times to post. This ensures that the game happens.
4. Setting. Some settings don't lend themselves well to being RPGed. It can work at first due to novelty, but eventually the logistical difficulties are too strong to be overcome. (This can happen in games set in other fictional universes, e.g. a Potterverse game or a Death Note game, because the magical objects in those games don't really lend themselves well to the DFRPG.) Other problematic settings are those where the main characters have to compete against each other (e.g., in the extreme, a Battle Royale game) because this makes it harder to work as a team or accomplish much of anything significant, and games where characters don't have well defined motives to continue being in the game (i.e., no explanation of why they don't quit and go home).
5. Particular difficult scenes/characters/etc. If a game features something really new, it'll take more work on the part of the GM, which can make the GM want to drag their feet a bit as that scene approaches. They might also be forced to pause the game if they can't stat or create something in time. (E.g., in my game, the characters may eventually need to fight armored vehicles, which are challenging to stat because there aren't examples in the books. So, if I didn't stat those ahead of time and suddenly the characters had to fight a Blackhawk or a battleship or something, I might have had to pause the game to hash out the stats, maybe even run a combat test or something). Long enough pauses can derail things.
6. Inclusion of gimmick elements. If Slenderman shows up out of nowhere, great, but it just got a lot harder to run and play the game because you've got a gimmick that risks overwhelming the whole plot. This can be mitigated if the gimmicks are built into the campaign (e.g., in the above, a major adventure, designed from the beginning, is dealing with Slenderman), but then it's not really a gimmick anymore.
7. Mismatched setting/character level. Some settings are better for, say, 'Chest deep' campaigns than 'Snorkeling' or 'On the Beach.' If the plot is 'the characters are generals in Winter's army as they march against summer', statting them as 'On the Beach' will limit what they can realistically do against Summer's forces. On the other hand, 'Snorkeling' characters are liable to walk all over, say, the characters from some of Harry's earlier adventures, and this can make the game boring.  
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 06:48:24 PM by ZMiles »

Offline Llayne

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Re: What Makes A Play-By-Post Game Last?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 06:49:26 PM »
As far as successful PbP's I've played in, mostly on other sites, it helps if a player or players help with the record keeping. It takes a lot of the burden off of the GM and let's them focus on keeping things moving.

Wiki's are good for that... a central location that anybody can edit. (as opposed to a post on a forum that only the OP can edit) Campaign logs, NPC Registry, Location Write ups, maps… an organized player is a GM’s best friend.