statting a lightsaber

[JustADude]

Me too.

I'm actually thinking about statting a Jedi now and all of his/her gear.  I think a Jedi would be a fairly high refresh character too.

I don't know how comfortable I am with making a lightsaber an item of power, though.

A lightsaber is just a piece of machinery.  It's a weapon that anyone can use - not just a Jedi.

In fact, some Jedi/Sith used swords instead of lightsabers because they liked the feeling of blade hitting flesh.

So.... that's something I am hung up on.

Well, we've seen several Lightsabers get destroyed, and quite casually, so they're not Indestructible. They're also not too uncommon either, really.

Somehow letting them have a W:6 blade just as a free piece of Equipment just seems wrong, though.

[BumblingBear]

Well, we've seen several Lightsabers get destroyed, and quite casually, so they're not Indestructible. They're also not too uncommon either, really.

Somehow letting them have a W:6 blade just as a free piece of Equipment just seems wrong, though.

Well, when you consider that they hail from a future where there are space stations that can blow up planets, I don't think it's too bad.

It's also a melee weapon - not ranged.

Plus, the fact that a weapon of that power in /this/ world would be a big deal could be a huge plot hook too.  Everyone would want to get their hands on it.


But consider, a ghoul has a weapon:6 with strength and claws.  A Jedi (depending on race) would probably not have any kind of strength powers.  That means a lightsaber would be about the same weapon rating as a ghoul without weapons.

When put that way, it actually almost seems a bit weak!

[BumblingBear]

Additionally, a Jedi doesn't stop being a Jedi without a lightsaber.

This is another reason I think the Lightsaber should be equipment rather than anything that causes refresh.

[JustADude]

Well, when you consider that they hail from a future where there are space stations that can blow up planets, I don't think it's too bad.

It's also a melee weapon - not ranged.

Plus, the fact that a weapon of that power in /this/ world would be a big deal could be a huge plot hook too.  Everyone would want to get their hands on it.


But consider, a ghoul has a weapon:6 with strength and claws.  A Jedi (depending on race) would probably not have any kind of strength powers.  That means a lightsaber would be about the same weapon rating as a ghoul without weapons.

When put that way, it actually almost seems a bit weak!

Additionally, a Jedi doesn't stop being a Jedi without a lightsaber.

This is another reason I think the Lightsaber should be equipment rather than anything that causes refresh.

Points well made. Sounds like Lightsaber as W:6 Equipment that's hellaciously difficult to replace (if in the Dresdenverse) would work just dandy, then.

[Khalis231]

Well, when you consider that they hail from a future where there are space stations that can blow up planets, I don't think it's too bad.

It's also a melee weapon - not ranged.

Plus, the fact that a weapon of that power in /this/ world would be a big deal could be a huge plot hook too.  Everyone would want to get their hands on it.


But consider, a ghoul has a weapon:6 with strength and claws.  A Jedi (depending on race) would probably not have any kind of strength powers.  That means a lightsaber would be about the same weapon rating as a ghoul without weapons.

When put that way, it actually almost seems a bit weak!

Additionally, a Jedi doesn't stop being a Jedi without a lightsaber.

This is another reason I think the Lightsaber should be equipment rather than anything that causes refresh.

Seconded on the points well made. However, I think that comparing a lightsaber to a ghoul with Strength and Claws isn't a fair comparison, because the ghoul has spent 5 refresh to get to the point where his claws are Weapon:6, while the Jedi gets a Weapon:6 lightsaber free of charge and can spend that same 5 refresh on, say, Inhuman Speed and Evocation, putting him way ahead of the ghoul in terms of power, even considering the ghoul's grappling and lifting/breaking bonuses. It may not be overpowered in a future with giant lasers, but we're talking about lightsabers in the Dresdenverse here. I agree that it shouldn't cost refresh ala an IoP, but I don't think it should be free equipment.

I think that paying for lightsabers with focus item slots is the ideal solution, because Jedi are going to have those spellcasting powers anyways to represent the Force, and the fluff doesn't really support Jedi using focus items the way Dresdenverse wizards do. So what to do with those unused focus slots? Substitute a build-your-own lightsaber system! Start it at Weapon:3 (well within the normal range for free equipment), and let the Jedi spend focus slots to improve the Weapon rating by +1 each (or some sort of scaling system, whatever's balanced). Maybe allow alternatives like +1 to weapon skill for one defense each round.

This would mean that lightsabers would be pretty firmly tied to the Jedi template, which fits the fluff that only Jedi have the mind-body awareness needed to truly utilize a lightsaber's potential without cutting an arm off. It would also tie each individual Jedi to his lightsaber, which also fits the fluff.

Now I'm tempted to actually come up with a Jedi template. Hmmmm ...

[BumblingBear]

Meh... although a Jedi would not have to spend refresh to have/use a lightsaber, they probably would in order to make one or use it effectively.

Keep in mind that while a normal person can use a lightsaber, they cannot weild it effectively.  Nor do they know how to make one.  All Jedi make their own lightsaber.

[devonapple]

Do we want to include the customization options which we have seen in some of the games (KOTOR) and probably the fiction?

Perhaps Jedi should have their own Craft (Lightsaber) ability which is either:
A) a Skill that they roll (so their invention would be handled like any other Craftsmanship project),
and/or
B) Refresh spent on Focus Item slots, so that Jedi can, if desired, spend Refresh to add qualities to their weapon

[Ala Alba]

For some reason this thread makes me want to run/play in a fate-based Star Wars game.

[EldritchFire]

Personally, I would call a lightsaber a Weapon:5 that can be used with Weapons. Full stop, end of story.

However, if a Jedi wants to use the lightsaber for more than hacking and slashing, they're going to need Supernatural powers. Note that since they're powers, they don't get the +2 refresh for being pure mortal. Let's face it, Jedi can do things no mortal can.

Sample Powers:
Lightsaber Combat [-2]: When using a lightsaber, you get a +1 bonus on all rolls, and deal +1 stress. In addition, you may use your Weapons skill to defend against ranged attacks, but not area attacks.
Lightsaber Deflection [-1]: If you successfully defend against an energy-based attack with your lightsaber, you may sacrifice your next turn's action to turn the defense roll into a successful attack against any target within range. If you spend a Fate Point, you do not sacrifice your next turn's action.

The first one is pretty self-explanatory. It's the classic Jedi Defense power. The second one is nothing more than the Repost Stunt found on page YS156 under Weapons. I added the Fate Point expenditure for those times when the Jedi really wants to be that B.A. Besides, powers are stunts with perhaps a bit more oomph, right?

Also, Strength and Speed powers might be appropriate.

-EF

[Becq]

I'd stick with calling a lightsaber an "IoP" just because a basic weapon doesn't give enough room for uniqueness in DFRPG.  How about something like this?

Lightsaber (-whatever)
(+2) Discount Already Applied.
(-1) Marked as a Jedi.  You carry the weapon of a Jedi, and those who see it will believe you to be one.  This can be either good or bad (see Marked By Power).
(-1) It’s a Beam Of Focused Energy.  A lightsaber takes the form of a handle that, when activates, emits an intense beam of focused energy.  It inflicts weapon:4 damage on anything it touches, regardless of the force (or lack thereof) behind the blow.  Strength and other similar powers do not increase the damage dealt by a lightsaber, though they can be used to overcome an opponent's lightsaber block.  [Note that the 'it is what it is' power usually costs nothing; in this case the entire weapon is special.  Assume this is the equivalent of a 1-h weapon (w:2) +2 stress (-1 refresh).]
(-?) Cuts Through Anything.  Lightsabers ignore all sorts of physical armor, including equipment, Toughness powers, etc.  Only force fields, other lightsabers, and certain rare, specially prepared materials can block one.
(-0) Disciplined Fighting Style.  Lightsabers require specialized training to use effectively, and can be deadly to those who use them without the proper training and focus.  Fighting with a Lightsaber uses Weapons restricted by and modified by the "Lightsaber Dueling" trapping of Discipline.

Then create the following stunt:

Lightsaber Dueling: You are trained in the effective use of lightsabers (this is a new skill trapping; most people can’t handle lightsabers without training). You  may use your Weapons (modified and restricted by Discipline) to attack, parry, create blocks, and perform maneuvers with a lightsaber.
Lightsaber Defense: Your lightsaber training is such that you may parry or block attacks that would be impossible for someone wielding a mundane melee weapon.  You may block ranged physical and energy-based attacks when wielding a lightsaber.  You must already have the Lightsaber Dueling stunt to learn this stunt, and parries or blocks with this stunt are performed as described in Lightsaber Dueling.

Add additional powers and stunts (probably including ones like Eldritch mentioned) to round out lightsaber combat and add in more general Jedi powers.

Or something like that.

[ways and means]

If don't think there is ever going to be a ligitmate reason to use tradition lightsaber in the DF setting, the closest you would likely get is a flaming sword of eldrict power or the giant style sword of a troll king.

But if you are using DFRP mechanics in a star wars setting I believe a lightsaber would just be a weapons 5 standard weapons which can also be used like a welding torch etc to do composite damage over time to barriers.

To use a lightsaber you would either need a force awareness power or a stunt showing your years of grueling training.

Force Awareness: [-2]: You can feel the living force, and sense, treat as a Supernatural Sense, you can detect force energy, emotions, and other force relating things. [Pre-req power for force powers and advance lightsaber training]      

As for item of Power this is a power I am stealing from a fate star wars rip

[-2] Weapon of Destiny: +1 to weapons rolls with your personal weapon, if your weapon is lost it will either eventually show up, you can spend a fate point for expediant recovery of your weapon, or if it is destroyed you can craft a like for like replacement with a small amount of time with the parts avaliable. (this takes a long scene).       

 

[EldritchFire]

This is why no one is willing to tackle a new Star Wars RPG...too many fans have their own vision on how the setting works. And not a single one of them is wrong!

Star Wars is best done as a home-brew, IMO.

-EF

[BumblingBear]

Personally, I would call a lightsaber a Weapon:5 that can be used with Weapons. Full stop, end of story.

However, if a Jedi wants to use the lightsaber for more than hacking and slashing, they're going to need Supernatural powers. Note that since they're powers, they don't get the +2 refresh for being pure mortal. Let's face it, Jedi can do things no mortal can.

Sample Powers:
Lightsaber Combat [-2]: When using a lightsaber, you get a +1 bonus on all rolls, and deal +1 stress. In addition, you may use your Weapons skill to defend against ranged attacks, but not area attacks.
Lightsaber Deflection [-1]: If you successfully defend against an energy-based attack with your lightsaber, you may sacrifice your next turn's action to turn the defense roll into a successful attack against any target within range. If you spend a Fate Point, you do not sacrifice your next turn's action.

The first one is pretty self-explanatory. It's the classic Jedi Defense power. The second one is nothing more than the Repost Stunt found on page YS156 under Weapons. I added the Fate Point expenditure for those times when the Jedi really wants to be that B.A. Besides, powers are stunts with perhaps a bit more oomph, right?

Also, Strength and Speed powers might be appropriate.

-EF

I like this!

[AlexFallad]

Already knee deep in a Star Wars Fate game.  Lightsabers work just fine for us as Weapon:2, ignore Armor:2

Blasters are Weapon:2 or 3, and (contrary to the movies and tropes) stormtrooper armor is Armor:2.  Blast vests are Armor:1

Remember Qui-Gon took a long time to cut through a blast door besides probably using the Force to block the radiating heat from the molten alloy.

Weapon rating is how intrusive/effective the Weapon is on one's stress track.  You don't want to get shot by a .357, blaster, stabbed by a gladius, OR carved by a lightsaber.

However, that stormtrooper armor will be great against everything except the lightsaber...

Seriously, from a gameply aspect if I had lightsabers at some ridiculous Weapon value like 4, 5, or 6 they would be way too overpowered.  Lightsabers are not battlefield weaponry...

[devonapple]

Bent a friend's ear about his current Star Wars FATE game, and they are counting Lightsabers as equipment (no Refresh) but are charging Refresh for the training to use them properly. Didn't ask what weapon value they used.