Author Topic: Burgerking and the Nevernever.  (Read 8014 times)

Offline Cyberchihuahua

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2011, 02:28:20 AM »
Just remember that places are linked by concepts. What is the concept of any fast food restaurant?

A place where a large number of carnivorous go every day for an easy, prepackaged meal....
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Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 02:29:55 AM »
Just remember that places are linked by concepts. What is the concept of any fast food restaurant?

A place where a large number of carnivorous go every day for an easy, prepackaged meal....

Diabolical.  And true.

If I were going to cross over to the nevernever someplace, I think I'd choose a dance studio or a gazebo that lots of couples get married in or something.

And I'd bring steel core bullets. :)
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Offline toturi

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 01:22:47 PM »
And I'd bring steel core bullets. :)
I'd probably bring FMSJ instead, unless those steel core bullets have steel tipped penetrators.
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Offline Obsid

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2011, 01:49:39 PM »
So I'm hearing a few strong nos. Several yeses. And countless buts.

I had actually thought about indicating geographic and cultural limitations in my first post. But I figured I wouldn't need to elaborate too much, since it's the basic idea that I'm talking about.

I was actually thinking Fast-food joints would be connected to some grim place associated with the ideas of stressful servitude and leisurely gluttony, not a pleasant place unless you're on the right side of the line. (get it, line? like the line to the cashier?). But the exact cookie-cutter establishments aren't important. I chose Burgerking because it was the first place that popped to mind, and I remembered a line or two from the books.

I agree that, "if they worked that way, someone would have taken advantage of it before" but who's to say they haven't?
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But maybe there's a special requirement. Like a metaphysical anchor
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Just because we don't know of someone who's done it, doesn't mean they haven't. It might mean that a lot of people have failed. But it's not like someone who succeeded would share their secrets.

So are there rules that would hinder this, or just a lack of rules to make it reliable?[/color]

Offline toturi

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2011, 02:13:13 PM »
So are there rules that would hinder this, or just a lack of rules to make it reliable?
I think it would be more of the latter than the former.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline Falar

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2011, 02:56:45 PM »
Thinking over it, I think your main problem would be the length of time a particular burger joint has been there - relatively unchanged. Of about a dozen places in my hometown, none of them are both a.) in the same location or b.) modeled the same as they were as when I was a teenager. That's a space of under ten years. I'm guessing that it would take a bit of time for a solid enough link to be mapped to be developed and it would have to be to a solid enough place. Burger joints are always in flux, even McDonald's, the king of the chains.

Now, thinking about the places where links have been developed to? The Pyramids? They've been around a while. A strip club? I don't know about your experiences, but the strip joints around where I'm at have been around a LONG time and it's probably not even all of those that form a solid, mappable link.
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Offline Obsid

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2011, 03:15:37 PM »
Thinking over it, I think your main problem would be the length of time a particular burger joint has been there - relatively unchanged. Of about a dozen places in my hometown, none of them are both a.) in the same location or b.) modeled the same as they were as when I was a teenager. That's a space of under ten years. I'm guessing that it would take a bit of time for a solid enough link to be mapped to be developed and it would have to be to a solid enough place. Burger joints are always in flux, even McDonald's, the king of the chains.

Now, thinking about the places where links have been developed to? The Pyramids? They've been around a while. A strip club? I don't know about your experiences, but the strip joints around where I'm at have been around a LONG time and it's probably not even all of those that form a solid, mappable link.

I think I see a good point here, but in theory a link can be created to the nevernever from anywhere. Where it leads depends on the ideas behind the place. The fact that mortal facilities, and on top of that cookie-cutter facilities are constantly moving around and remodeling, plus that many of them are fairly young compared to what might have been there before. That's a good reason why they wouldn't all lead to the same place. How long does it take to change the nevernever parallel from one place to another if it's been untamed marshland for the past thousand years?

Offline Tallyrand

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2011, 05:16:11 PM »
Yeah, to parrot much of what's already been said (Emotional resonance is more important that physical resonance etc) I would say that while many Burgerkings would likely go so similar places (if they're Burgerkings that serve similar areas) but it would be a very unreliable mode of transportation.  If I was going to make a character who takes advantage of business chains I would go for something that's larger and had a greater emotional resonance.  For example I think that the center of one big box store would be pretty similar to the center of another, or that the middle of most movie theaters would lead to a similar place in the Nevernever.

Offline Arcane

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2011, 05:55:09 PM »
How about airports?  They're travel nexi already, and thousands of travellers pass through them everyday to reinforce the resonance that these are places one goes to to travel from one place to another.   Might they not be the site of useful crossroads in the Nevernever?
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Offline Tallyrand

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2011, 06:01:37 PM »
How about airports?  They're travel nexi already, and thousands of travellers pass through them everyday to reinforce the resonance that these are places one goes to to travel from one place to another.   Might they not be the site of useful crossroads in the Nevernever?

Yes, but depending on the airport and the city it might not be a crossroads you want to enter.  I'm pretty sure that's the reasoning behind Chicago being so big in the Nevernever.  O'hare is a HUGE airport and I'm sure it's influence is enough to effect a large portion of the city.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2011, 06:54:22 PM »
You make a reasonable case for fast food joints relating to each other.  My question is, what would relate them to the Nevernever?  Also, why would they go to a single (or relatively close) area in the Nevernever?

Raith WCVs use night clubs as access to the Nevernever, but that seems a function of the Raith's affinity more than the clubs'.  Is it a court of gluttony based WCVs using fast food restaurants? 

In my view, thaumaturgy or supernatural affinities may well open a gate to the Nevernever just about anywhere.  However that gate will generally go to a roughly coterminous location on the other side.  Shortcuts need affinity to a Nevernever location that isn't coterminous.  That really requires deciding what is in the Nevernever...

I figure there are some unique sites mirrored on the other side.  Stonehenge, Easter Island, Pyramids, Cenote, etc.  It takes knowing the geography of both sides to find good shortcuts.  Which is why such information is so valuable. 
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Offline finnmckool

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2011, 02:10:28 PM »
Just remember that places are linked by concepts. What is the concept of any fast food restaurant?

A place where a large number of carnivorous go every day for an easy, prepackaged meal....

I was thinking something like this as well. Some sort of feeding place. I was thinking something a little more Langoliers than velociraptor.

Offline Haru

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 02:32:23 AM »
I certainly like the idea, but Fast Food places don't really have to be similar, just because they have the same name. For example, in one of the bigger cities in my area, there are 2 McDonalds. In one of them, the people who work there always seem grumpy and unhappy, and most of the customers as well. The other one is quite the opposite, the employees are always smiling at you, seem to be genuinely happy most of the time and it is all in all a nicer place. In the nevernever, those places are probably pretty far away, though it is only 2 miles linear distance.

Another thing is a comment in White Night from Harry. During the battle in the deeps, when Cowl enters, Harry says that though both portals to the nevernever are very close (in fact, they are in the same cave, so the metaphysical capacity should be the same), they would probably not open to the same place in the nevernever, due to the different personalities and styles of magic he and Cowl use. That would mean, that not only the place, but what the place means to the person opening the portal means, plus their general state of mind. In this case, Harry said Thomas could find the place, because he was almost killed in the deeps, and with Harry being his brother and being there when it happened, it is only reasonable, that Harry would be able to open the gate to the same place Thomas would go.

Maybe it has something to do with the kind of power a place has. If the wizard is strong enough, he can imprint his vision onto the opening and have it open to where ever he wants. If not (which usually seems to be the case) he has to use the imprinted connection that has been formed over time. Cowl (and maybe the Gatekeeper on his way to Demonreach) would certainly be strong enough to do something like this, everyone else uses the usual routes.
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Offline bobjob

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2011, 07:37:07 PM »
I think all Burger Joints are guarded by a type of NeverNever creature known as the Grimace.
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Offline admiralducksauce

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Re: Burgerking and the Nevernever.
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2011, 08:26:07 PM »
I think all Burger Joints are guarded by a type of NeverNever creature known as the Grimace.

And that just got yoinked for my game.  :)