Author Topic: Attack spells that last more than one exchange  (Read 26536 times)

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 04:42:52 AM »
@MijRai: Ugh, Orbius. I don't like that spell at all. It totally shuts down the character you use it on unless they break out of it. Which isn't appropriate here, I think.

@UmbraLux: So, correct me if I'm wrong here. The wizard makes an evocation attack every round for x rounds. However, it only costs him one spell's worth of stress and the weapon rating is greatly reduced.

@ways and means/BumblingBear: That works well for some effects, but it doesn't really cover "cloud of fire" type things. Also, I have a feeling that it might be a touch too powerful when used as a pre-fight buff for another character. But I'm probably just being paranoid. Honestly, it's a good idea.

Offline MijRai

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 05:25:49 AM »
@MijRai: Ugh, Orbius. I don't like that spell at all. It totally shuts down the character you use it on unless they break out of it. Which isn't appropriate here, I think.

Which is why you modify it. More shifts to damage, don't worry about holding them still.
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Offline Belial666

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2011, 10:39:33 AM »
Orbius can't get more shifts to damage. It's a magical grapple and, being adjudicated as a grapple, it can only do 1 stress per exchange regardless of how high the spell power/control.

OTOH, each exchange is a separate stress point and it ignores armor.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2011, 03:18:33 PM »
@UmbraLux: So, correct me if I'm wrong here. The wizard makes an evocation attack every round for x rounds. However, it only costs him one spell's worth of stress and the weapon rating is greatly reduced.
He sets up multiple maneuvers to last a couple exchanges and, since there's little functional difference, you term the aspects as a weapon or lasting spell.

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Offline Michael Sandy

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2011, 06:19:13 PM »
There is an example spell in the book of a wizard animating a tree so that it attacks as weapon 7.

How do you build the spell so that the animation lasts more than one exchange?  Would it be fire and forget, with the tree attacking whoever is closest to it?  Or would it be something that the wizard has to direct each round?

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2011, 07:22:22 PM »
You know, I've been having a lot of trouble understanding things today. So maybe it's my fault that UmbraLux's most recent post has confused me. Regardless, I'd like an example of how these "weapon aspects" would work.

Like Belial, I see no way to modify Orbius. But I'd love to see how you'd do it, MijRai.

I figure that any of the methods presented here would work for tree animation attacks.

Offline Belial666

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2011, 07:34:38 PM »
Oh there is a way to modify Orbius. It just takes loads of power;


Double Orbius
Effect: This spell strangles the target - twice. Adjudicate as two magical grapples at superb power each. (see orbius spell)
Mechanics: 5 shifts for magical grapple, 5 shifts for second grapple, 4 shifts for duration

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2011, 08:07:42 PM »
He sets up multiple maneuvers to last a couple exchanges and, since there's little functional difference, you term the aspects as a weapon or lasting spell.

Remember, Fate generally models story building and not event simulation. 

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me either.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline sinker

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 07:31:24 PM »
I know this is a really unpopular opinion but I just don't think it's possible by RAW. Notice that 1) the rules for using shifts to extend the duration of a spell falls under the evocation block rules, not the attack rules. There's nothing in the attack section. And 2) The rules for extending a spell (on subsequent actions) only apply to a spell that has an ongoing effect (I.E. the spell must be around for you to extend it).

On a personal level I also dislike the concept. Consider that one casts a spell at weapon:6 then you are capable of dealing 1 stress for each shift you have called up. Now if I cast a spell at weapon:5 with a second turn of duration I suddenly nearly double the amount of stress I am capable of doing. What if I put some effort into casting the spell, lets say I get 10 shifts (not too hard to do, especially for a submerged wizard) then cast that at weapon:7 for four exchanges (1+ the 3 additional shifts). Next exchange I fill the box below that and cast another one at 9 shifts, weapon:7 for three exchanges. Next exchange the box below that, etc. Let's assume that the bad guy always rolls a superb defense and I'm only applying the weapon rating as the attack on subsequent rounds. Now I'm dealing a total of 48 stress, just from the weapon ratings (I.E. not including the targeting rolls). And none of that is considering the fact that now that my attacks last through the next exchange I can put shifts into the duration via the extending rules.

Personally I'd say you should do this kind of thing one of two ways. Maneuver and then tag for effect (which is putting a bit of trust in your GM understanding the effort and making it worthwhile) or simply attack each turn and model it as your character simply reigniting the flames that were dieing.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 07:43:03 PM »
It isn't possible by RAW. We're trying to fix that here.

Also, I think the way you describe them working is probably as broken as you think it is. That's why we need another system.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2011, 11:17:30 PM »
The common denominator for these multiple-round spells is to take out or damage an opponent, if I understand correctly.

The problem with the multiple-round spell approach is that it is not - as I understand it - an efficient means of taking out an opponent *in this system.* The hit-point erosion method suitable for the simulationist RPGs doesn't map exactly to DFRPG: the most effective means of taking out opposition here is by stacking up Aspects and getting in a final takedown blow that exhausts the opponent's ability to soak damage with its Stress track (and, if applicable, Consequence track).

The longer, more boring combats seem to be those in which players are counting on repeated stress track hits to take something out.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2012, 08:59:36 PM »
So a little late to the party, but I've been thinking about how to implement this (in particular, one of my players wants to do that lightsaber-y thing ways and means suggested), so here's what I'm thinking. I feel there should be different ways of adjudicating it based on what the targets are, stationary targets (walls, doors, a zone) or moving targets (enemies).

If the target is a stationary object, like a door or a wall, roll it more or less as suggested: Each exchange past the first, the Weapon rating of the spell just does direct damage--since the wall isn't "dodging" it doesn't make a difference, and the wizard doesn't have to concentrate on it to keep it on target.

For a whole-zone attack, however, I think the initial Discipline roll should still be used as an attack roll, on the basis of if you're filling a zone with magic fire for three turns, the fire shouldn't be any less deadly the second and third rounds. In this way, it kind of acts like a block, except it doesn't stop you from going into a zone, it just gives you a very good reason not to be in it. So if you put a Weapon:3 effect on a zone for two rounds, and rolled a 6 to control it initially, it'd be like an area-denial attack, where there's nothing stopping you from entering the zone, but you're going to be up against a tough attack if you try it.

As for single target effects, the way I'd do it is, for the wizard to land the attack, they'd have to keep rolling Discipline each turn to target as their attack, and if they do something else that turn, the attack simply doesn't hit anything (or it hits something they didn't intend as a compel). That'd keep things like the lightsaber idea and, say, Harry directing a fireball to hit several mooks in a row over several turns, consistent and keep you from abusing it to set up three or four constant attacks at once.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 09:02:01 PM by Mr. Death »
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Offline CottbusFiles

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2012, 10:03:10 PM »
It isn't possible by RAW. We're trying to fix that here.

Maybe, just maybe (and i mean highly probarly) there is a reason for that.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2012, 10:05:08 PM »
It kind of is possible in the RAW, if you loosely interpret the bit about turning a block into an attack. It's really the same principal, redirecting spell energy that's already in play.
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Offline CottbusFiles

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Re: Attack spells that last more than one exchange
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2012, 10:15:05 PM »
By RAW you can do that with blocks. With.blocks. There is nothing about attacks. Also the energy of the attack is gone when used. No more energy there to convert.
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