Question about Mental Stress and Sponsored Magic?

[citadel97501]

Hello all,

I was wondering if you take mental stress when you use Thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation, due to sponsored magic?  This is what my gut instinct is, but I wanted to make sure. 

[crusher_bob]

Yes, you take the mental stress as if it were casting an evocation. 
What the 'speed' trick lets you do is do things that you can only do with thuamaturgy, but much faster. 
You are also limited by your evocation power, so you can't pull off some of the more impressive tricks instantly.

[Belial666]

Basically, you are casting a spell at the power/control of your Evocation and you pay mental stress for it but you can use that power to do thaumaturgy effects, not just the evocation effects of attack/block/maneuver/counterspell.

So with the right sponsored magic you could summon a creature outright, or heal somebody, or raise a ward mid-combat, or conjure something big and helpful for the situation.

[Haru]

You have the option to let your sponsor take part of the stress, if I remember correctly. You collect debt and that can be compelled any time, so you should be careful in doing so.

[Wyrdrune]

You have the option to let your sponsor take part of the stress, if I remember correctly. You collect debt and that can be compelled any time, so you should be careful in doing so.

that is how i handle it, and my players are often wary to pull off fast thaumaturgy mojo. but when you are with the back to the wall, you might have to use every trick in your sleeve.

[Todjaeger]

Another potential difference with the use of Sponsored Magic (at least the way I read it) is that until when a caster normally using Channeling/Evoation, with the amount of power limited/defined by the Conviction skill and however much they are willing to 'overcharge', a caster can use Aspects to boost their Conviction roll to determine how much power they can use.

That isn't something possible with normal channeling or evocation.

-Cheers

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Another potential difference with the use of Sponsored Magic (at least the way I read it) is that until when a caster normally using Channeling/Evoation, with the amount of power limited/defined by the Conviction skill and however much they are willing to 'overcharge', a caster can use Aspects to boost their Conviction roll to determine how much power they can use.

That isn't something possible with normal channeling or evocation.

-Cheers

Could you share where you read that? I didn't see that at all, and I want to see if I am playing it right.

[Todjaeger]

Could you share where you read that? I didn't see that at all, and I want to see if I am playing it right.

It was more 'implied'.  When reading the sections on casting with Evocation or Channeling, it specifically mentioned that Evocation can't use other power sources like thaumaturgy can, from YS255

—evocation is too quick and dirty to use other power sources the way a thaumaturgical spell can (page 267).

Now, this could be interpreted with Sponsored Magic that thaumaturgy at the speed of Evocation wouldn't allow the use of other power sources either, so the caster couldn't use any of their Aspects, or Sponsored debt...  Or it could be interpreted as allowing Evocation-type effects/speed, but also drawing on power from Aspects as well as Sponsored debt.

Either or, depending on how a particular GM/storyteller and group wants to interpret the rules.  The main issue would be to be consistant, so that everyone in the group has to follow things the same way.

-Cheers

[Haru]

As far as I see it, you can use as many aspects as you want to boost a thaumaturgy effect, even at the speed of evocation. The problem with a thaumaturgy effect of too much complexity is, that you also have to gather up the power in 1 roll, so you would probably need even more aspects to invoke here. Or, as you already have sponsored magic, push the entire backlash onto your sponsor and have fun trying to get out of your debt ever again.

Also, you don't have any time to prepare the thaumaturgy spell, as you would have with any usual thaumaturgy ritual, so anything you are using would have to be made up on the fly, and there is only so much you can do. Then again, your sponsor might jump in there.

[zenten]

I'm pretty sure you can use Aspects to boost *any* roll, assuming the Aspect applies.

[Haru]

I'm pretty sure you can use Aspects to boost *any* roll, assuming the Aspect applies.

Yes, but with thaumaturgy, you can also use aspects to boost your lore rating and therefore the complexity of your spell. You can not do that with evocation. Although I am not sure if this applies to thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation, I just assumed it would.

[devonapple]

Yes, but with thaumaturgy, you can also use aspects to boost your lore rating and therefore the complexity of your spell. You can not do that with evocation.

Actually, you can, sort of - certainly environmental Aspects, and possibly even your own, if you can rationalize it.

I say this because the Grasping Branches spell (Evocation) in the book requires the caster to tag an Aspect related to there being foliage or a tree to use in that Zone, and those shifts go directly into the power of the spell. It certainly sets a precedent, anyway.

[Haru]

Actually, you can, sort of - certainly environmental Aspects, and possibly even your own, if you can rationalize it.

I say this because the Grasping Branches spell (Evocation) in the book requires the caster to tag an Aspect related to there being foliage or a tree to use in that Zone, and those shifts go directly into the power of the spell. It certainly sets a precedent, anyway.

That tag is used to enhance the discipline roll, if I remember correctly, not the casters conviction, that is what I meant as the difference between thaumaturgy and evocation. Or is Conviction used on speed-thaum instead of Lore and I am just confused here?

[devonapple]

That tag is used to enhance the discipline roll, if I remember correctly, not the casters conviction, that is what I meant as the difference between thaumaturgy and evocation.

It could do that, too. I feel (according to the rules and the game developers' comments) that the magic system is a little more fluid than some may figure.

I'm certainly not recalling a hard rule about being unable to increase the power of a spell with Aspects, but I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong.

[Haru]

The thing is, if you can boost your conviction with aspects, you would be able to cast much higher powered spells with only 1 stress cost, and I am pretty sure, that is not meant to be. You kinda increase the power of the spell by using an aspect on you discipline roll anyway, simply because you can gather up more power safely.