Parrying with a Shotgun or Rifle?

[citadel97501]

Thanks for the laugh, I love the links. . .

Oh and damn am I happy to see other vets, or currently serving soldiers here. . .

[BumblingBear]

I can't recomend a Mosin-Nagent enough in this category.


AK vs AR vs Mosin-Nagent

I'm planning on getting one.

I want an M44 to go hog hunting with.  I like the bayonet on it.  The potential to hunt with the bayonet out, and potentially have a handy spear if a 300 lb pig charges me appeals to my survival instinct.

Something like an M44 I would let a PC use as a melee weapon or a firearm.

In fact, I have an item of power in my campaign that specifically states it can be used as a melee weapon.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/let-s-keep-austin-a-little-less-weird/items/terror-cannon

[evileeyore]

I want an M44 to go hog hunting with.  I like the bayonet on it.  The potential to hunt with the bayonet out, and potentially have a handy spear if a 300 lb pig charges me appeals to my survival instinct.

I know a guy down here that goes hoggin every year, he never goes with out someone on backup carrying a boar spear.

But a Nagant with a good bayonet would do fine in a pinch. 


For PCs though, how in the hell are they going to carry it around concealed?  They'd have to use magic.  Now we need to come up with ways for a Gun Toting Wizard to protect his ammo... cause a Nagant would probably survive a modern Wizards natural hexing.  It'll jam every 3 or 4 shots anyway... 

[Kommisar]

LOL

I'd look at anyone funny if they suggested using a bayonet for hunting... EXCEPT for hunting hogs.  I grew up in the swamps and marshes of Georgia and I fear hogs more than I do snakes and gators.

Most of the World War II era battle rifles were very sturdy and solid weapons.  And a lot heavier than a modern battle rifle with solid wood furniture to boot.  Not to be to blunt or insensitive, but you could beat a man to death with a Garand and still expect it to fire right after.

I would simply assign any given weapon a number of stresses and, possibly, an armor value.  This would include consequences as well; just for fun and flavor.  You know, hey, your rifle now has the moderate consequence Jam-Happy or Untrue Barrel.

[evileeyore]

I would simply assign any given weapon a number of stresses and, possibly, an armor value.  This would include consequences as well; just for fun and flavor.  You know, hey, your rifle now has the moderate consequence Jam-Happy or Untrue Barrel.

For an Equipment Is Important game, that sounds like a perfect solution.

[BumblingBear]

For an Equipment Is Important game, that sounds like a perfect solution.

I agree.

And resources+craftsmanship could fix the weapon, getting rid of the consequences it took.

It's an elegant solution, but kind of crunchy.  Heck, combat can take a while as is - could you imagine dealing with stress for weapons too!? 

[evileeyore]

I agree.

And resources+craftsmanship could fix the weapon, getting rid of the consequences it took.

It's an elegant solution, but kind of crunchy.  Heck, combat can take a while as is - could you imagine dealing with stress for weapons too!? 

I also love to play GURPS.  I love crunchy...  in fact I'm constantly having a knee-jerk reaction to DFRPG's soggy edges of storytellingness.  It's not what I'm used to.

[Todjaeger]

This argument is trending a bit too much to realism.  How do you break a gun in-game?  You have the antagonist make a Declaration with Guns, Weapons, or Fists (whcihever is appropriate) that his latest blow has imposed the 'Broken' Aspect on the gun that was being used to parry his melee attack.

The PC can make a Craftsmanship roll to remove the Aspect.

You might want to read the opening paragraphs of the short story Day Off, where Harry goes off about realism...

There are also stunts in Spirit of the Century where characters can use 'improvised' melee weapons which (beer bottle, chair, etc) which can then break after successful uses.  And again, while something like a rifle might not break after being used to wack something, or keep something from wacking you, some of the springs and other small moving bits inside might not be where they're supposed to be in order to fire safely...

If I had to use a gun as a melee weapon and wanted to still use it as a gun afterwards, I'd go with a M1903 Springfield, or a M1912 Winchester myself. 

-Cheers

[BumblingBear]

The intrepid hero with the most toys carries one of these:



..that has been enchanted as an item of power to shoot holy saw blades.

[Vryce]

^ this

nice

[Silverblaze]

The intrepid hero with the most toys carries one of these:



..that has been enchanted as an item of power to shoot holy saw blades.

Like buzz saw blades?

[comprex]

This argument is trending a bit too much to realism. 

Can I use this, please?

[Kommisar]

Having played GURPS for well over a decade now... I hate crunchy!  I would only go with stresses and such for a weapon under 2 circumstances:

1)  The weapon is used in a non-standard way.  Such as using your AK-47 to parry an axe swing from a big guy.

2)  It otherwise would make sense.  A catch all reason for odd things.

I would not track this sort of thing for every weapon all the time.  An alternative is to just skip the stress tracking for the weapon and go right to consequences for the weapon in the same manner one works out a concession.

[Todjaeger]

Having played GURPS for well over a decade now... I hate crunchy!  I would only go with stresses and such for a weapon under 2 circumstances:

1)  The weapon is used in a non-standard way.  Such as using your AK-47 to parry an axe swing from a big guy.

2)  It otherwise would make sense.  A catch all reason for odd things.

I would not track this sort of thing for every weapon all the time.  An alternative is to just skip the stress tracking for the weapon and go right to consequences for the weapon in the same manner one works out a concession.

Well, if you don't like crunchy, don't use "Fuego" for prolonged periods of time, a quick blast should just leave 'em crispy.  And "Arctis" is right out as well.

Seriously though, for in-game play I would generally handle such a situation by taking into account what is occurring.  If the player is using a gun to parry a Weapons attack from another character, or a Fists attack from a character with Inhuman Strength or better, that I'd put an Aspect on the gun, something like "I'm a gun, not a billy club!" which would last until the character has a chance to have someone check/fix the gun.  In the mean time, I would have 'fun' with the Aspect, and the player would have the chance to get Fate points, and/or spend them to keep using the gun anyway.  In short, I would basically just skip a weapon stress track altogether if what happens could damage the weapon.

-Cheers

[Novembermike]

I'd probably let someone parry with a fairly basic weapon (break open shotgun, revolver, musket etc) without anything happening, but if someone mishandles a complex weapon like an SMG or precision rifle I'd add an aspect to it. An automatic weapon would get something I could compel for a jam and a precision weapon I would compel against an aimed shot.