Nevernever rules

[Khayne]

My campaign has taken the players into the Nevernever. I was wondering if you have any advice on a couple of things.

1. What impact would bringing cold iron into the Nevernever have? I get the impression that the faerie view this as we would tactical nuclear devices. Am i on the right track here? 

2. Firearms. Would they work in the Nevernever?

3. Will enchanted stuff from the Nevernever work in the mundane world? I assume it will.

Hope some of you gurus have some insights 

[jybil178]

I'm not really a guru, but these are some of the general insights I get on the situation...

1. I don't think you'd get QUITE the response, but it defiantly won't be viewed upon very well.. I believe I know the particular part of the series you are referencing.  If I recall correctly, it was more along the lines of leaving iron material in there realm would be considerate of dumping nuclear toxic waste off in another country.

2. Yes, and no.  Generally speaking, the laws of physics can get pretty wacky in the Nevernever.  There is a very definitive possibility that they could cease to function at a great moment of need.  So a more reliable weapon, such as a sword, that doesn't require any physics or chemistry, other than that of simple forward momentum and a sharp pointy end, is more preferable.

3. This one is kinda a tough call...  Generally speaking, anything you take out of the Nevernever, and back into the mundane world turns into icky ectoplasm, as its basic physical makeup just dissolves.  Particular items of import, or very special materials only found in the Nevernever COULD though most definitely exist, I mean its perfect story/plot right there, so the system itself practically says it has to exist

Overall, I have to say that there really should be more source material on the Nevernever.  Its a very huge potential use for story, RP, and plot, but with little to no real makeup, the individual ST and players are kinda left to their own devices.  However, I do believe the upcoming new book is rumored, or stated, to have SOME info on the Nevernever, so I'm actually quite excited about that ^^

Hope you get some more feedback, and hope mine wasn't really off, and at least useful, hehe.

[Belial666]

1) Yep, radioactive waste is a good analogy.


2) Depends. If you go in places in Summer that things that burn easily tend to spontaneously combust, the bullets will probably explode. If you go in places in Winter where normal fire (and in extreme cases, even magefire) cannot ignite at all, then guns will be merely oddly-shaped metal sticks. And those are only two examples - given that there are places in the Nevernever that are underwater or that the air has a very high methane content, you might have a lot more problems than guns not firing.


3) Almost anything made out of the material of the Nevernever turns to goo on Earth; the Nevenever is the Spirit World and most things there are made out of ectoplasm given form by Power. Now, if the items are real but enchanted with Nevernever magic, they'd just follow the rules for enchanted items or items of power.

[crusher_bob]

Note that the thing with iron only applies to areas claimed by the fae.  Of course, most 'nearby' areas of the nevernever seem to be areas claimed by the fae... 

And it's mostly leaving behind iron, that the fae would not be able to get rid of by themselves that is the problem.  By leaving the iron around, you are basically forcing the fae to enter into debt to someone to come and get rid of it, and they hate that.

[Belial666]

Who says the Fae cannot get rid of it? Any Fae could wear a glove, pick up the piece of iron and throw it through a Gateway that happens to open 100 feet above your head. Leaving behind iron can piss them off real bad.


That said, any human could pick up a piece of plutonium and move it around. That doesn't mean it's healthy for them or their environment, and fey are more adversely affected by iron than humans are by radioactives.

[DFJunkie]

3. Will enchanted stuff from the Nevernever work in the mundane world? I assume it will.

As long as the enchantment lasts.  Something invested with enough mojo to be considered an IoP would probably last indefinitely, while an Enchanted Item made of matter from the Nevernever would last as long as is convenient for the plot (ie. so long as the caster reserves an Enchanted Item slot for it). 

Who says the Fae cannot get rid of it? Any Fae could wear a glove, pick up the piece of iron and throw it through a Gateway that happens to open 100 feet above your head. Leaving behind iron can piss them off real bad.

I wonder if they have human contractors for iron removal.  Those Gruffs had to get their SMGs from someone.  Maybe he knows a guy who knows a guy. 

[bibliophile20]

I wonder if they have human contractors for iron removal.  Those Gruffs had to get their SMGs from someone.  Maybe he knows a guy who knows a guy. 

hehehehehe... my PCs were running from the cops and opened a portal to the Nevernever to escape.  I dropped them onto an ice floe in the middle of one of Winter's biggest rivers... about a half a mile from the falls.    The Chevy they were driving dropped through the floe and into the river.  They managed to survive, but two of the PCs got a dunking. 

Next session, there's a knock on the safehouse door; a rather dapper-looking gentleman is there.  He claims that this is Accords business, may he please come in?  Then opens his briefcase, hands an official looking document to the wizard and informs him that he has one lunar cycle to remove all of that iron from Mab's river, or she will take appropriate action against the White Council.  Then walks out into the hallway and disappears.  Wizard PC looks at me.  "Did I just get served... by a fairie?"

[Richard_Chilton]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it seems to be easier to cast spells there than it is here.  There are a couple of times when Harry says something like "I would never have tried that in the real world, but since I was in the Nevernever..." - a demonstrates that he had finer control over his magic.

Maybe this would work best as an aspect of the Nevernever that casters can tag for a bonus on their discipline rolls when casting evocation?

Richard

[admiralducksauce]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it seems to be easier to cast spells there than it is here.  There are a couple of times when Harry says something like "I would never have tried that in the real world, but since I was in the Nevernever..." - a demonstrates that he had finer control over his magic.

Maybe this would work best as an aspect of the Nevernever that casters can tag for a bonus on their discipline rolls when casting evocation?

Richard

I'd certainly roll with that.

When it comes to guns, I told my players to bring them, but don't be surprised if they're compelled to have their guns stop working.  That way they get FATE out of it.

[Papa Gruff]

All of a sudden I wonder if the Winter/Summer Knights have to do cleanup duty some times. Literally speaking *g* .

[Sanctaphrax]

I agree with just about everything on this thread so far. Just like to contribute a couple of links to Nevernever location writeups that you might find useful.

http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Nevernever+Location+The+Iron+Spires
http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Nevernever+Location+The+Library

[evileeyore]

1. What impact would bringing cold iron into the Nevernever have? I get the impression that the faerie view this as we would tactical nuclear devices. Am i on the right track here?


Hospitality Rules sort of apply here.  Entering a Fae Lords Demense clad in Cold Iron is akin to coming armed before a Lord, even if the iron isn't in the form of what we would consider a weapon.

Remember, Cold Iron isn't untouchable by Fae, just uncomfortable to be around and potentially damaging to the tougher ones.

Also keep in mind RedCaps run around armed with Cold Iron pikes and Cold Iron boots, so it isn't "toxic waste" or "nukes".


2. Firearms. Would they work in the Nevernever?


Maybe.  I'd probably substitute COnviction for Firearms when using them in most areas of the Nevernever.


3. Will enchanted stuff from the Nevernever work in the mundane world? I assume it will.

Depends on whether it's made from pure Nevernever stuff or Real.

Pure Fae materials would fade in accordance with the cycle of the Fae who made it.  But sometimes Real things get made or brought into the Nevernever.

[sinker]

Also keep in mind RedCaps run around armed with Cold Iron pikes and Cold Iron boots, so it isn't "toxic waste" or "nukes".

Is this referencing something dresdenverse specific or are you discussing a common legend. If it's the latter (as I suspect it is) it may not be relevant. Remember in the third book Lea reacts very negatively to the concept of Harry leaving Iron in the Faerie parts of the Nevernever. Seems to me that things like that would be ridiculous if common faeries were running around with iron all the time.

[admiralducksauce]

Hospitality Rules sort of apply here.  Entering a Fae Lords Demense clad in Cold Iron is akin to coming armed before a Lord, even if the iron isn't in the form of what we would consider a weapon.

This is how I see it too.  Iron hurts fairies and they have no use for it.  There's no reason to bring iron into Fairie unless you are up to shenanigans.  It's like walking down the street with an M-60.  Yes, you can claim you have it for protection.  Yes, it will ward off potential threats.  Yes, there are more reasonable choices you could have made when it comes to self-defense.  No, the cops are NOT going to leave you alone.

On the other hand, I'd certainly want the M-60 if I was going to be walking through Fairie.  It's one of those situations where there's no right or wrong, and to me it'd come down to a social conflict as to who ended up more maligned: The mortals with iron claiming they (rightly) need it in the face of the dangers posed by the Nevernever, or the fairies who take umbrage at the presence of their bane when they freely offer the mortals their "hospitality".  As long as the iron is there, the mortals can kill a mess of fairies before they go down if it comes to that, and the fairies have to play nice.  If the iron isn't there, the mortals' asses belong to the fae.

[Haru]

On the other hand, I'd certainly want the M-60 if I was going to be walking through Fairie.  It's one of those situations where there's no right or wrong, and to me it'd come down to a social conflict as to who ended up more maligned: The mortals with iron claiming they (rightly) need it in the face of the dangers posed by the Nevernever, or the fairies who take umbrage at the presence of their bane when they freely offer the mortals their "hospitality".  As long as the iron is there, the mortals can kill a mess of fairies before they go down if it comes to that, and the fairies have to play nice.  If the iron isn't there, the mortals' asses belong to the fae.

It does make for a nice bargaining chip: let us go unharmed, or we will leave the bane with you. Plus, an entity like the erlking will be offended, if you don't bring weapons, and bringing iron would just mean you are coming prepared, so he would probably be both, offended and impressed.