Grenade Punch

[ways and means]

How would people stat the degree of self inflicted damage from punching someone in the face with a live grenede, it would be at least 4 stress worth of damage but I was wondering should it be anymore as it is in your hand.  

[Gatts]

I'm fairly sure a grenade is a zone attack, so basically all your work is done for you. Everyone in the zone takes four stress, including the idiot holding a grenade.  

[Edit] I can see why you're tempted to do more damage, but I'm not sure the system really supports it. Perhaps you could not permit him any kind of defense roll, and have the damage of his attack apply to him. That's the only justification I can think of.

[ways and means]

Considering the character has mythic toughness he probably wouldn't be seriously damaged by holding a grenade as it goes off so perhaps 4 is best.

[devonapple]

How would people stat the degree of self inflicted damage from punching someone in the face with a live grenede, it would be at least 4 stress worth of damage but I was wondering should it be anymore as it is in your hand. 

According to the rules, I don't know how I would model it.

I will set aside the bizarreness of the maneuver, and instead ask: what was the intended narrative/game effect of this method? If this is simply a really tough character wanting a zone-wide attack that doesn't need a roll to target someone, then... I dunno. Being a brick has its advantages. I *want* there to be some sort of consequence for this action, but if the character is tough enough, then this sounds like it fits in with acceptable brick powers. It sounds really sketchy, but I'm not coming up with a good rationale for prohibiting/limiting it, other than the dread that allowing this maneuver means there is little to stop this brick from carrying a dufflebag full of grenades and simply popping one open every round until the enemies are dead. Smart opponents can get around it, sure, but still.

This could also sound like a really proactive Concession: this is what I'm willing to suffer to put an immediate end to this Conflict, rather than slog through a bunch of rolls. In which case, I'd probably insist on a mid-level Consequence, which might go away soon if the tough guy has any Recovery powers.

[DFJunkie]

Wait, is he holding the grenade in a closed fist as he punches someone in the face?  If he has his actual hand wrapped around the actual grenade I'd say he's losing fingers here at the very least.

Yes, Weapon:4 to the zone is the basic effect of a grenade, and good enough for FATE.  But that weapon rating assumes that it's being tossed near the people to be affected and they are actively avoiding it.  If it's in his hand it should probably do very little damage to anything other than his hand.

[Gatts]

Okay, I just checked YS: 325, and the attacker's roll IS added to the damage of the grenade.

Rules look fairly simple from this point of view, add his attack to the weapon:4 to everyone in the zone, and don't allow him a defense.

[Edit] I know this probably won't do much harm past his armour, stress and such, but I'm not really comfortable with suggesting a consequence, especially when someone has paid points for a power designed to prevent damage. This way, he'll probably take some stress at least.

[Tedronai]

Mythic Toughness provides armour:3.
A grenade is weapon:4.
So...a character with Mythic Toughness suffers approximately the same amount of 'injury' from a weapon:4 attack that a regular human suffers from a weapon:1 attack.
Then again, I doubt a grenade's weapon:4 rating is meant to wholly represent being in direct contact with the thing when it goes off.

Which would mean that the character is about to suffer at least as much pain as a normal human would from getting a dagger stabbed through their hand (that's a lot of pain), and possibly a heck of a lot more.

[Vryce]

The other issue i see is that the Grenade would not to the same amount of damage in the zone it was in..   To me it is kind of someone jumping on a grenade to save the party, but in this case his own arm, hands and body would stop a great amount of the shrapnel.

[ways and means]

The other issue i see is that the Grenade would not to the same amount of damage in the zone it was in..   To me it is kind of someone jumping on a grenade to save the party, but in this case his own arm, hands and body would stop a great amount of the shrapnel.

The way he described it was that he was cupping the grenade in his hand and attacking palm first I only rolled damage for the enemy whose face the grenade was colliding with as I thought between this character and the big bad most of the shrapnel would be absorbed. So people recon the grenede puncher should get his skill plus his weapons rating in stress rather than just the weapons rating?

[Tedronai]

With any consequences inflicted by this attack (and there should be some) being along the lines of 'shrapnel in my hand' (mild), to 'mangled hand' (moderate), to 'shredded hand' (severe), to 'exploded hand' (extreme)

[devonapple]

[Edit] I know this probably won't do much harm past his armour, stress and such, but I'm not really comfortable with suggesting a consequence, especially when someone has paid points for a power designed to prevent damage.

I know. But this maneuver really seems to be pushing the boundaries of narrative realism - a lot of this combat stuff is already at quite an abstract level, with some give and take allowed for cause/effect, but this seems to really be gaming the system. Foolishness isn't technically a Catch, but...

Was the brick using Fists to place the grenade, or Weapons?

Based on the description, it sounds like there may be a cause for reducing or eliminating the damage to others in the same zone, but if the grenade is enough to tear through the intended target, then that could definitely affect others in the zone.

[Gatts]

The way he described it was that he was cupping the grenade in his hand and attacking palm first I only rolled damage for the enemy whose face the grenade was colliding with as I thought between this character and the big bad most of the shrapnel would be absorbed. So people recon the grenede puncher should get his skill plus his weapons rating in stress rather than just the weapons rating?

If he'd thrown the grenade at the zone he was in, he'd take his weapon skill plus weapon:4 in stress, reduced by his defensive skill and armour. Just like everyone else at the zone. What I'm suggesting, is that since he made no attempt to avoid the effects, he should at the very least forfeit his defensive roll. His attack roll and weapon damage would hit him straight, and only be reduced by armour.

[ways and means]

The character was rolling fist to hit the target and at the time I just gave him 4 stress points, if I think about it now given he also had a stunt that allowed him to roll endurance as a dodge I probably should of had him rolling endurance against his fist skill to work out his damage. I should probably explain the character was based on the incrediable Hulk so some of the stupidity arose from that.

[Gatts]

The character was rolling fist to hit the target and at the time I just gave him 4 stress points, if I think about it now given he also had a stunt that allowed him to roll endurance as a dodge I probably should of had him rolling endurance against his fist skill to work out his damage. I should probably explain the character was based on the incrediable Hulk so some of the stupidity arose from that.

Well, my suggestion is to not let him have a defense at all. He in no way tried to avoid taking damage.

That stunt sounds odd though, how did you explain in setting avoiding damage with Endurance? It sounds more like a power than a stunt.

[Sanctaphrax]

Avoiding damage with Endurance: getting hit but not hurt. Remember that taking no stress does not mean that you didn't get hit, and that taking stress doesn't mean that you did.

As for the original question: roll Weapons to hit, then defend normally. Grenade punching is just fancy narration, and shouldn`t have a mechanical effect in my opinion.